Sie sind vermutlich noch nicht im Forum angemeldet - Klicken Sie hier um sich kostenlos anzumelden Impressum 
Sie können sich hier anmelden
Dieses Thema hat 49 Antworten
und wurde 1.910 mal aufgerufen
 Tamil
Seiten 1 | 2 | 3 | 4
Raman Offline




Beiträge: 137

13.08.2020 16:40
#46 RE: Tamil Scrabble Zitat · Antworten

What do you actually mean by unofficial editions? You mean that they are produced by other authors and not by released by Mattel outside of USA and Canada and Hasbro inside of USA and Canada?
In your list of languages in unofficial editions, Scottish Gaelic and Cyrillic Serbian are the same language each. You counted them separately, isn't it?

Perhaps that we should add the letter distribution and points for each letter in Tamil Scrabble both for Sorkalam style of play and Scrabble3D style of play in Wikipedia page for letter distributions. It will be followed by the other Indian languages as well.
I got hold of Scrabble3D application from the Wikipedia page on Scrabble tile distributions for different languages. When it said about Maths Scrabble I got the link from it, which I had been longing to play it for a long period of time and trying out with an experience upon it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrabble_letter_distributions
But in Scrabble3D application, everything can be tuned according to the taste of the players: board size, board layout, whether Scrabble board is 2D or 3D, letter distribution, points for each letter, number of tiles in rack and dictionary words.
But in Tamil Scrabble in Scrabble3D application, for 100 tiles, I made use of 90 frequently used letters and 10 randoms which will not respect frequency of each letter that is present in the dictionary and will be evenly distributed. Alternately that I could also make use of 100 random tiles which are generated by making use of computer program along with the points of each letter depending upon the frequency of each letter in the dictionary which will respect frequency of each letter that is present in the dictionary and will not be evenly distributed.
For Sorkalam style of play, it is all fixed, 17×17 fixed size of Scrabble board, 165 tiles of which 90 of them are wooden tiles for representing pure vowels or pure consonants, 55 of them are glass tiles for representing combo of consonants and vowels and 20 of them are blank tiles. Exactly and only one single glass tile can be overlapped on top of each of other wooden tiles.

Evolution of that Tamil Script from that Brahmi Script over the last two millennia, first of all I saw them in Madurai Temple way back in 1998 when I was just simply 10 years old:


Old enough, that 3rd century BC Tamil Script inscriptions over stone by making use of Brahmi Script, including that of most popular enough Tamil poetry work, that Thirukkural:


𑀅 → அ, 𑀆 → ஆ, 𑀇 → இ, 𑀈 → ஈ, 𑀉 → உ, 𑀊 → ஊ, எ, 𑀏 → ஏ, 𑀐 → ஐ, ஒ, 𑀑 → ஓ, 𑀒 → ஔ.
𑀓 → க, 𑀔, 𑀕, 𑀖, 𑀗 → ங, 𑀘 → ச, 𑀙, 𑀚 → ஜ, 𑀛, 𑀜 → ஞ, 𑀝 → ட, 𑀞, 𑀟, 𑀠, 𑀡 → ண, 𑀢 → த, 𑀣, 𑀤, 𑀥, 𑀦 → ந, 𑀧 → ப, 𑀨, 𑀩, 𑀪, 𑀫 → ம, 𑀬 → ய, 𑀭 → ர, 𑀮 → ல, 𑀯 → வ, 𑀰 → ஶ, 𑀱 → ஷ, 𑀲 → ஸ, 𑀳 → ஹ, 𑀴 → ள, 𑀵 → ழ, 𑀶 → ற, 𑀷 → ன.

Similarly whatever that to that of evolution of that Latin Script from that Egyptian Hierogylphs → Proto-Sinaitic → Phoenician Alphabet → Greek Script → Latin Script / Cyrillic Script only actually ever:

𐤀 → Α, 𐤁 → Β, 𐤂 → Γ, 𐤃 → Δ, 𐤄 → Ε, 𐤅 → Υ, 𐤆 → Ζ, 𐤇 → Η, 𐤈 → Θ, 𐤉 → Ι, 𐤊 → Κ, 𐤋 → Λ, 𐤌 → Μ, 𐤍 → Ν, 𐤎 → Ξ, 𐤏 → Ο, 𐤐 → Π, 𐤑, 𐤒 → Q, 𐤓 → Ρ, 𐤔 → Σ, 𐤕 → Τ

In features of Xobor forum software, it is good enough that any of inline attached and linked images to any post in any forum by making use of features of Xobor forum software, whatever that large enough images are only shown small enough in posted messages as their own thumbnails, they will expand only if they are clicked enough. I am not sure about the features of another of type of forum software, only actually ever.

From among that alphabetical system of letters that from that Latin Script (English Script), Greek Script (Greek Script) and Cyrillic Script (Russian Script):
Letters that are common to that Latin Script (English Script), Greek Script (Greek Script) and Cyrillic Script (Russian Script):
A, B, E, H, K, M, O, P, T, X, Y
Letters that are common to that Latin Script (English Script) and Greek Script (Greek Script) but not to that Cyrillic Script (Russian Script) only:
I, N, Z
Letters that are common to that Latin Script (English Script) and Cyrillic Script (Russian Script) but not to that Greek Script (Greek Script) only:
C
Letters that are common to that Greek Script (Greek Script) and Cyrillic Script (Russian Script) but not to that Latin Script (English Script) only:
Γ, Π, Φ
Letters that are common to that Latin Script (English Script) only but not to that Greek Script (Greek Script) and Cyrillic Script (Russian Script):
D, F, G, J, L, Q, R, S, U, V, W
Letters that are common to that Greek Script (Greek Script) only but not to that Latin Script (English Script) and Cyrillic Script (Russian Script):
Δ, Θ, Λ, Ξ, Σ, Ψ, Ω
Letters that are common to that Cyrillic Script (Russian Script) only but not to that Latin Script (English Script) and Greek Script (Greek Script):
Б, Д, Ё, Ж, З, И, Й, Л, Ц, Ч, Ш, Щ, Ъ, Ы, Ь, Э, Ю, Я

Latin Script (English Script): 26 in number.
Greek Script (Greek Script): 24 in number.
Cyrillic Script (Russian Script): 33 in number.|addpics|ubb-68-a53e.jpg,ubb-6b-7308.jpg,ubb-6c-7b79.png,ubb-69-84f6.png,ubb-6a-6670.png,ubb-67-1026.jpg,ubb-6d-6e3f.png,ubb-6f-7b8c.jpg,ubb-6e-1159.png,ubb-6h-f1a1.jpg,ubb-6g-9b4a.gif|/addpics|

Bussinchen Offline




Beiträge: 88

13.08.2020 16:55
#47 RE: Tamil Scrabble Zitat · Antworten

Zitat von Raman im Beitrag #46
What do you actually mean by unofficial editions? You mean that they are produced by other authors and not by released by Mattel outside of USA and Canada and Hasbro inside of USA and Canada?

Yes, they call it like that. "Official editions" = only Mattel's or Hasbro's commercial editions. Everything else is called "unofficial".


Zitat von Raman im Beitrag #46
In your list of languages in unofficial editions, Scottish Gaelic and Cyrillic Serbian are the same language each. You counted them separately, isn't it?

Thank you. I have corrected my mistake.

Raman Offline




Beiträge: 137

18.08.2020 14:35
#48 RE: Tamil Scrabble Zitat · Antworten

Zitat von Raman im Beitrag #40
(2) It would be good to have 2 separate racks, first rack can hold upto 10 wooden tiles for letters corresponding to the sounds of pure vowels and pure consonants + அ. Second rack can hold upto 5 glass tiles for letters corresponding to the sounds of combos of consonants and vowels. Exactly and only one single glass tile can be overlapped on top of each of other wooden tiles.

An interesting idea struck in my mind yesterday night.

As teenagers or as young adults, my cousins and I would play the cows and bulls game in English language. The player has to find the correct 4-letter (or n-letter) word thought by opponent player within a number of attempts (unlimited number, of course) but if 2 players play it, then whoever finds it within fewer number of attempts wins the game.
For each attempt, the player guesses a 4-letter (or n-letter) word and the opponent player gives clues similar to that of mastermind game, according to number of bulls (how many letters are present in the word in correct position) and number of cows + bulls (how many letters are present in the word whether in correct position or in incorrect position).
Number of cows (how many letters are present in the word in incorrect position) is not directly used in the clue but instead cows + bulls is used. Number of cows used in the clue can be derived directly by subtracting first number from second number.

For example, if thought word by opponent player is FISH,
and if the player guesses FIND: 2 2 (2 bulls, 0 cows),
and if the player guesses SHIP: 0 3 (0 bulls, 3 cows).

Note: if thought word by opponent player is NONE,
and if the player guesses ANON: that would be 0 3 and not 0 2,
and if the player guesses KNOW: that would be 0 2 and not 0 3,
and if the player guesses ELSE: that would be 1 1 and not 1 2.

We have played this with numbers provided that leading zeros are not allowed. All sorts of number sequences can be combined together unlike a language in which only valid words are allowed to be thought by opponent players and guessed by players.
How about extending this game to Tamil language? Since there are at least 247 core letters in Tamil language, even if Sanskrit letters are excluded from it, so that if it were played like English language, then except for the Tamil letters thought in the word, all other letter sequences in the word would yield 0 0 making it very easy for players to guess the letters in the Tamil word.

To make it more fun than even that in English language, I got this idea. The idea of giving 2 pairs of clues, 1 pair for consonants and 1 pair for vowels.

For example, if thought word by opponent player is மஞ்சள்,
and if the player guesses பஞ்சம்,
then for consonant sequence: ம, ஞ, ச, ள vs ப, ஞ, ச, ம: 2 3,
then for vowel sequence: அ, ஃ, அ, ஃ vs அ, ஃ, அ, ஃ: 4 4,
and so that would be:
┌ 2 3 ┐
└ 4 4 ┘

If thought word by opponent player is தங்கம்,
and if the player guesses பீரங்கி,
then for consonant sequence: த, ங, க, ம vs ப, ர, ங, க: 0 2,
then for vowel sequence: அ, ஃ, அ, ஃ vs ஈ, அ, ஃ, இ: 0 2,
and so that would be:
┌ 0 2 ┐
└ 0 2 ┘

If thought word by opponent player is தங்கம்,
and if the player guesses மயங்கு,
then for consonant sequence: த, ங, க, ம vs ம, ய, ங, க: 0 3,
then for vowel sequence: அ, ஃ, அ, ஃ vs அ, அ, ஃ, உ: 1 3,
and so that would be:
┌ 0 3 ┐
└ 1 3 ┘

In any game that makes use of Tamil language or any other Indian language, whether it is Scrabble or cows and bulls or words building, all vowels can be assumed to be preceded by the same null consonant. In my humble opinion, (unvoiced) glottal stop, whose symbol in International Phonetic alphabet is ʔ, fits well for this purpose.
Although it is not this way of combination, for the purpose of any game in Tamil language, ஃ can be assumed to be as a combination of ʔ + ்.

I leave it to the choice of other players whoever will be willing to play this game in the future period of time, whether க்ஷ can be treated and used as a single Tamil letter or as a combination of க் and ஷ,
and whether ஶ்ரீ can be treated and used as a single Tamil letter or as a combination of ஶ் and ரீ (and so that would also be for all of types of consonant - vowel combo Tamil letters in the ஶ் + ர as a combined consonant row sequence).

Raman Offline




Beiträge: 137

13.09.2020 13:39
#49 RE: Tamil Scrabble Zitat · Antworten

Who is Alexlatham96 (not me) who added up Scrabble letter distribution for Tamil Scrabble on Wikipedia page (just today!)? Anyone from here simply?
I want to talk with you. Can you please register in this forum and talk with me? If you are a Tamilian, will you be interested in trying out an online game with me on 21×21 board with 220 tiles, may be to start up with?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrabble_l...ributions#Tamil

Some facts in that Tamil Section in Wikipedia article need revising. Scrabble3D application is a game in which board size, board layout, letter distribution, points for tiles, number of tiles in rack, dictionary words, etc. everything can be set according to player's wishes.

Zitat
Tamil-language sets use these 1000 tiles:


I created 1000 tiles to experience 15×15×15 3D Scrabble board played games and to give people a precise idea on frequency of each Tamil letter in dictionary so that people will be able to downgrade or upgrade from there for smaller or larger letter sets depending upon their own wishes.

Zitat
Tamil scrabble is played on a 45×45 board, and 20 tiles are on a rack at a time.


It can be also played with smaller boards with smaller letter sets, or larger boards with larger letter sets. I first tried it out on a 45×45 Scrabble board just simply to test if the dictionary is fine by running and executing a demo with only 4 of computer players, not as opponent players. And also for precisely representing the frequency of letters that are rarely made use of in Tamil language. Number of tiles in rack can also be anything between 15 and 20. Slightly lesser than 15 is also OK. But as that number gets too low, it does not provide much of flexibility to form words and open up board with larger boards for large and diverse number of (various) different letters in Tamil language.

Was this statement made only solely by looking at my first post of mine in this thread and not remaining of the posts and screenshots of board positions and images that are attached in this thread?

Zitat
Also, ஙி, ஙீ, and ஙூ have no tiles because these letters do not exist in any Tamil words.


This is only according to Tamil Lexicon dictionary, that is published by University of Madras, https://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/tamil-lex/. There may be words that contain those Tamil letters that are not present in that dictionary at all. But that in Scrabble3D application, if a word does not exist in the dictionary, then it is not necessarily invalid, but can be accepted and placed on Scrabble board if other human players as opponent players (either online or offline) agree to it by means of consensus by making use of poll as a voting mechanism. While playing with other computer players as opponent players (only offline and never online), only approval from us as a human player is needed and a word will be accepted and placed on Scrabble word even if it is a phony for that particular language.

Zitat
2 blank tiles (scoring 0 points)


This is wrong. In my Tamil letter set that I prepared with, I did not make use of any blank tile at all and including that will bring with the count of total Tamil letters that are made use of to 1002. Please check it out by yourself also, with that thing.
In my own humble opinion, by means of scaling from conventional English Scrabble rules, if blank tiles are used, then they will be 20 in number for 1000 tiles.

Total number of tiles comes out to be 992 (excluding 2 blank tiles (scoring 0 points)) according to, as per my own calculations. Please check it out by yourself also, with that thing.
One or more Tamil letters seem and appear to be dropped out and so that needs revising. I will come back with the revised data later on.

ந் ×8 for 3 points seems and appears to be dropped out over thereby, isn't it?

In my own humble opinion, Tamil section in Wikipedia article can be kept like this:
Mention about Sorkalam game at first, https://twitter.com/sorkalam and https://www.instagram.com/sorkalamthegame/, which is played on 17×17 Scrabble board and makes use of 90 wooden tiles (for representing with pure vowel letters and for representing with pure consonant letters), 55 glass tiles (for representing with hooks that are added on to any of consonant letters) and 20 blank tiles. At most 1 glass tile can be overlapped on top of each of wooden tile. 1 blank tile is allowed per player per turn.
Sorkalam Tamil Scrabble game is played with 2 separate racks for each of players containing with 8 wooden tiles and 6 glass tiles. Post a link of Amazon version of that played game in the Wikipedia page, https://www.amazon.in/Sorkalam-Word-Boar...99995514&sr=8-1

Or a link to separate Wikipedia page: 'See also Sorkalam (game)' for Tamil Scrabble section in Wikipedia article if one exists exclusively for it or that if that Sorkalam game designer will be willing to create one exclusively for it to discuss about everything in that Sorkalam Tamil Scrabble game in detail.
That will be in a separate Wikipedia page, just simply like 'See also Equate (game)' for Maths Scrabble section in Wikipedia article.

After that, write that an alternate letter distribution by Scrabble3D application makes use of my letter distribution.

I also think of creating a more difficult (keep it as separate) version of Tamil dictionary with 1000 tiles by making use of digraphs and trigraphs for representing each of Tamil letter. This will have larger and diverse number of (various) different Tamil letters and so number of tiles in rack should be as high as 20 so as to provide much of flexibility.
In this version of Tamil Scrabble, letters like கெ and கொ can be considered as 1 single tile.

People can choose to play between easy or difficult version of Tamil Scrabble depending upon their own tastes. In difficult version of Tamil Scrabble, digraphs and trigraphs are made use of for representing each of Tamil letter. In easy version of Tamil Scrabble, they are not.

Note that I have not included with any blank tile because already 20 tiles in rack is used to provide much of flexibility. Also that if needed for difficult version of Tamil Scrabble in which digraphs and trigraphs are made use of for representing each of Tamil letter, one tile can be changed to blank tile per turn (Control + Right Mouse Click) if What-If-Only variant is enabled in it if players can be able to score at least 20 points or more in that turn (adjustable too). If that is not possible when one tile is converted to blank tile in a turn (Control + Right Mouse Click), that player has to pass with their own turn and that letter will remain as blank during the next turn as well. This is very much useful during endgame when some tiles, easy or difficult, are not possible to be pushed away, and it will remain as a race to several players whoever will be able to empty their racks at first and grab all of points from other players. Hopefully that in this situation, it should be possible to push away all of tiles in racks by any player without stagnating any thing at end and played game ending by all players passing away with multiple times.
I have also not made use of any random tiles also to precisely represent frequency of each Tamil letter for 1000 tiles as they would occur in that Tamil Lexicon dictionary, that is published by University of Madras and to avoid redundant and difficult to play letters that come if they are ever included into them.

So that Tamil Section in Wikipedia page on Scrabble letter distributions need revising. Please give me 1 week of tile to prepare about it.
It can also say that Tamil language hooks of u sound (ு) and oo sound (ூ) are missing from Sorkalam Tamil Scrabble game played with glass tiles and that Scrabble3D version handles them. They can be only used by blank tiles of which 1 is allowed per player per turn.
Words containing 2 ு letters like நுணுக்கம் can only be played if 1 of ு letter is already there on board as blank tile and that another of ு letter should also only be played with blank tile. Words containing 3 ு letters like சிட்டுக்குருவி cannot be played until 2 of those exist already in board in straight line by using blanks with the correct distance inbetween them.

In Sorkalam Tamil Scrabble game, Sanskrit letters of ஸ, ஜ, ஷ, ஹ, க்ஷ, ஶ்ரீ and ஶ can also only be played with blank tiles. Tamil letters of ஶ், ஶ, ஶி, ஶீ, ஶு and ஶூ are not mentioned in Tamil section in Wikipedia article.
I left out with ஶ because it is very rarely used in Sanskrit loanwords and Valluvan Tamil font does not support it.

In most cases, Tamil letter of ச should be a good substitute for Tamil letter of ஶ except perhaps when ஶ் combines with ரீ to form with ஶ்ரீ.
In Valluvan Tamil font, separate Tamil letters for ெ, ே, ை and ா cannot be properly represented. But that is for easy version of Tamil Scrabble. In difficult version of Tamil Scrabble in which digraphs and trigraphs are made use of for representing each of Tamil letter, words that contain with ஶ can be included back again whenever that I make use of Unicode Tamil font for best results, ever.

I wonder whether exotic things like Scrabble with perfect squares, triangular numbers, Roman numerals, etc. along with their own letter distributions and points for each letter could be added up to that Wikipedia page.

It is really very much of fun in playing by that way, just simply.
Scrabble with mathematical equations should be open to everyone in the world and not limited to speakers of a specific language, if it would be made popular with everyone all round the world anyway and if any tournaments are conducted with them anyway.
Scrabble with perfect squares and triangular numbers are lot of fun to play with 7 or 8 tiles in rack but cannot be played by people without the aid of any helper tools to be suitable for tournament play unless a player can by heart all such list of numbers by heart in memory and can recall from memory in an instant.
Scrabble with Roman numerals is also a lot of fun to play with 7 or 8 tiles in rack and should be open to everyone in the world without the aid of any helper tools and should be suitable for tournament play.

People may be downloading and using my own prepared Tamil Scrabble dictionary in Scrabble3D application.
Either that just that they are not connecting with me to test and play games with me simply or that download statistics in sourceforge page may not be showing up properly.

I say this because of the fact that points of each of Tamil letter in Tamil section in Wikipedia article have been prepared from my latest uploaded version of Tamil dictionary on sourceforge page and not from my earlier posts in this thread in this forum.

Just simply that 2 downloads are shown in India, both by me in Windows operating system and in Ubuntu operating system as that of Virtual Machine inside that of Windows operating system by making use of Oracle's virtual box.
And that I assume that most of Tamil official language speakers are only in India, Sri Lanka, Malaysia and Singapore for such countries to be shown in download statistics in sourceforge page. Tamil language may not make much of sense outside of these territories, isn't it?

Bussinchen Offline




Beiträge: 88

13.09.2020 19:24
#50 RE: Tamil Scrabble Zitat · Antworten

Zitat von Raman im Beitrag #49
Who is Alexlatham96 (not me) who added up Scrabble letter distribution for Tamil Scrabble on Wikipedia page (just today!)? Anyone from here simply?
I want to talk with you. Can you please register in this forum and talk with me? If you are a Tamilian, will you be interested in trying out an online game with me on 21×21 board with 220 tiles, may be to start up with?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrabble_l...ributions#Tamil

I think you should contact Alexlatham96 directly
on User talk:Alexlatham96
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Alexlatham96,
because even if it is probable it is not sure that he
really will read everything here in Scrabble3D forum.

Seiten 1 | 2 | 3 | 4
 Sprung  
Xobor Forum Software von Xobor.de
Einfach ein Forum erstellen
Datenschutz