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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 10

Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:51 pm
Official Rules: WESPA website vs. ABSP website vs. NASPA website Quote · reply

Today I have studied once more different English websites where we find the official tournament rules for Scrabble in English language:

http://www.wespa.org/rules/index.shtml - WESPA - World English-Language Scrabble Players Association

http://www.absp.org.uk/index.shtml - ABSP - Association of British Scrabble Players

http://www.scrabbleplayers.org/ - NASPA - North American Scrabble Players Association




On the WESPA site I found this:

The Association of British Scrabble Players (ABSP) has recently voted to adopt WESPA's first version of the rules for its domestic tournaments from 2011. Most countries will be using the second version from the official adoption date of 1 January 2011.

WESPA's first version of the rules.



On the ABSP site I found this:

*** NEW YEAR, NEW RULES, NEW WORDS ***

Members are reminded that, from January, all ABSP-rated events are played to WESPA rules v2 (which can be found HERE.) and the latest edition of Collins Official Scrabble Words.



WESPA's first version is this file: http://www.wespa.org/rules/RulesV1.pdf
WESPA's second version is this file: http://www.wespa.org/rules/RulesV2nov11.pdf


Now I'm a little bit confused. What is correct for British rules? WESPA's first or second version?

When I click on Publications in the Main Menu The ABSP on the British ABSP website http://www.absp.org.uk/index.shtml, I open this link: http://www.absp.org.uk/absp/publications.shtml. There I find ABSP Documents -->
Game Rules (Jan 2012) external site, which is linked to the document http://www.wespa.org/rules/RulesV2nov11.pdf (WESPA second version).

On the other hand we have had the document http://www.absp.org.uk/publications/GameRules.pdf from April 2009, which I had taken into consideration before. But that document seems to be obsolete, because it is not linked with the British ABSP website any more.

So I think we should use WESPA's version 2 rules for British standard rules in Scrabble3D. I believe that what is written on the WESPA website about British rules (i.e. WESPA's version 1) is wrong.

What do you think?


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 10

Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:57 pm
#2 RE: Official Rules: WESPA website vs. ABSP website vs. NASPA website Quote · reply

NASPA (North American Scrabble Players Association) --> http://www.scrabbleplayers.org/
on the other hand seems to use the NASPA rules on http://www.scrabbleplayers.org/wiki/imag...es-20120616.pdf

On the NASPA website, I have not found anything about WESPA rules to be used in American tournaments.
That's why I believe that we should use the NASPA rules for standard settings in Scrabble3D.


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 10

Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:49 am
#3 RE: Official Rules: WESPA website vs. ABSP website vs. NASPA website Quote · reply

NASPA rules - http://www.scrabbleplayers.org/wiki/imag...es-20120616.pdf

Please help me! I'm looking for the challenge penalty for the player who has made an unsuccessful challenge. I don't find anything about the penalty if all challenged words are acceptable. I only find this:


IV.J.2. Improper Self-Lookups

If any words are looked up separately in a multi-word challenge, then no penalty shall
be imposed if both players contributed to the error. If one player is solely responsible AND if
the adjudication is “unacceptable,” then that player shall receive a 10-point game penalty.
In
either case, if the error is discovered before all words have been checked and if the adjudication
at that point is “unacceptable,” then no further words shall be entered.



What does that mean? This is not the general challenge penalty for unsuccessful challenge of valid words, I suppose?


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 10

Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:57 am
#4 RE: Official Rules: WESPA website vs. ABSP website vs. NASPA website Quote · reply

When comparing
American NASPA rules http://www.scrabbleplayers.org/wiki/imag...es-20120616.pdf and
British WESPA rules second version http://www.wespa.org/rules/RulesV2nov11.pdf
(WESPA 2.0, 2010-11-17, valid for UK from 1st January 2012), I see now that both
- in terms of Scrabble3D standard rules - are identical,
if the challenge penalty will be set to 10 points for the American rules.
(But I'm not sure, if this is right; see my post #3, please.)


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linhart Offline




Posts: 2.463

Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:04 am
#5 RE: Official Rules: WESPA website vs. ABSP website vs. NASPA website Quote · reply

In my opinion, the passage IV.J.2 treats only the situation when erreoneously not all challenged words have been typed before adjudication, as required by IV.J.1 f.

So this has nothing to do with penalty for challenge of valid words. I do not know if there is such a penalty in the NASPA rules.


Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 10

Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:42 pm
#6 RE: Official Rules: WESPA website vs. ABSP website vs. NASPA website Quote · reply

Thank you, Linhart, for your comment. You might be right. Yes, I think you are right...


Anyway:

NASPA and WESPA differ only in one point from each other (in terms of Scrabble3D standard rules): Challenge penalty.

As far as I see, corresponding to NASPA, challenge penalty should be set to zero: ChallengePenalty:0;
I cannot find anything about any challenge penalty for unjustified challenges of correct words or moves.
Corresponding to WESPA v2, however, the parameter for challenge penalty may be set to 5 or 10 or what you like to choose, for example: ChallengePenalty:5;

Do you think it will be okay, if I set challenge penalty to 5 points for the whole unsuccessfully challenged turn according to WESPA v2, 3.10.15 (b) (iii), or would you prefer a penalty of 10 points for the move in the standard settings of our beloved Scrabble3D?



http://www.wespa.org/rules/RulesV2nov11.pdf

3.10.15 Challenge Penalties
(a) A player whose turn is successfully challenged loses that turn.
The challenger may be penalised only if all challenged words are acceptable.
(b) The penalty for an unsuccessful challenge varies from tournament to tournament.
The following penalty conditions are considered standard:
(i) no penalty ('single challenge');
(ii) five-point penalty per unsuccessfully challenged word;
(iii) five-point penalty per unsuccessfully challenged turn;
(iv) as in subsection (ii) or (iii), but using ten-point penalties;
(v) loss of turn ('double challenge').
(c) Other penalty conditions are not considered standard. Examples are:
(i) no penalty for first unsuccessful challenge,
loss of turn for subsequent unsuccessful challenges ('dingle challenge');
(ii) five-point penalty for first unsuccessful challenge,
ten-point penalty for subsequent unsuccessful challenges;
(iii) 5-5-10-20-30 point (or similar) increasing penalties for unsuccessful challenges;
(iv) time penalties.
(d) Option (b)(ii) is the preferred international norm.
Tournaments using non-standard penalty conditions may be considered non-ratable by WESPA.



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linhart Offline




Posts: 2.463

Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:52 pm
#7 RE: Official Rules: WESPA website vs. ABSP website vs. NASPA website Quote · reply

Since option (b)(ii) is the preferred international norm, I'd propose to take it as standard for Scrabble3D. But of course, option (b)(iii) will do as well.

In German Scrabble the challenge penalty also varies, but five points either for challenged word or challenged turn seem to be well accepted.

In my opinion the reason for the penalty is only to prevent players from challenging every word.
On the other hand, if the penalty is very high many invalid words will not be challenged. So a moderate penalty seems to be optimal.


Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 10

Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:07 pm
#8 RE: Official Rules: WESPA website vs. ABSP website vs. NASPA website Quote · reply

Zitat von linhart im Beitrag #7
Since option (b)(ii) is the preferred international norm, I'd propose to take it as standard for Scrabble3D. But of course, option (b)(iii) will do as well.


Yes, I agree, but (b)(ii) is not possible in Scrabble3D, because you can only challenge the whole move, regardless of how many single words that move consists.
That's why we are forced to choose another option. Scotty has not programmed the option to challenge single words, others not, within one move.

And that's why I chose the next option, (b)(iii): a penalty of 5 points for the whole move. But, since often a move consists of more than one word, we could also choose 10 points for the whole move, like in German or in Swedish Scrabble tournament rules.


Penalties in other countries:

French = 5 points for every word; Spanish = 0 points (I cannot find anything about challenge penalties in the international rules for Spanish Scrabble either).

Other countries have very difficult penalty rules, like for example Slovakia:
"unrighteous challenge penalty: 1st time (counted per player) > 10 points, all next > challenger will miss a turn". This is not possible in Scrabble3D.

- or Italy, where the penalty is 10% of the unsuccessful challenged move.


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