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 Catalan
Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 2

Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:56 pm
[yes: invalid moves = passes] Catalan Rules: Treat invalid moves as passes or not? Quote · reply

Do you treat invalid moves as passes or not?

Hello Joan!

We have a question about the Catalan rules:

http://www.olissip.com/Reglament-general.pdf

IX FINAL DE LA PARTIDA
27. Acabament d’una Partida: La partida finalitza quan:
27.2 Ambdós jugadors passen dos torns consecutius (canviar lletres no es considera passar) o ambdós jugadors no col·loquen cap fitxa al tauler tres torns consecutius. En els casos 27.1 i 27.2, cada jugador restarà la puntuació corresponent que tingui al faristol.


IX ENDE DES SPIELS
27. Beendigung einer Partie: Das Spiel endet
27.2 wenn beide Spieler in jeweils zwei Zügen hintereinander passen (Buchstaben tauschen zählt nicht als Passen)
oder wenn beide Spieler in jeweils drei Zügen hintereinander keinen Spielstein aufs Brett legen.
Im Fall 27.1 sowie 27.2 zieht jeder Spieler die Punkte der jeweils noch auf seinem Bänkchen verbleibenden Buchstaben von seinem Punktestand ab.


What does this mean exactly?

Cf. the English and the Spanish rules, where it is specified that invalid moves (= successfully challenged moves) be treated as passes.

English / USA:
http://www.wespa.org/rules/RulesV1.pdf

5.2.1 Game Ended by Six Consecutive Zero Scores
The game ends after six consecutive turns scoring zero. The scores of zero may result from any combination of:
(a) passes;
(b) exchanges; and
(c) successful challenges.



Spanish:
http://fisescrabble.org/reglamentos/modalidad-clasica/

VIII FINAL DE LA PARTIDA
45. Terminación de una partidaLa partida finaliza cuando:
45.1 Ningún jugador puede colocar fichas en el tablero.
45.2 Ambos jugadores pasan dos (2) veces consecutivas. (Cambiar letras no se considera pasar. En cambio, quitar del tablero una jugada declarada no válida sí equivale a pasar.)



Please tell us, dear Joan: How do you do in Catalan games?


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jmontane Offline




Posts: 63

Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:31 pm
#2 RE: Catalan Rules: Treat invalid moves as passes or not? Quote · reply

Zitat
IX FINAL DE LA PARTIDA
27. Acabament d’una Partida: La partida finalitza quan:
27.2 Ambdós jugadors passen dos torns consecutius (canviar lletres no es considera passar) o ambdós jugadors no col·loquen cap fitxa al tauler tres torns consecutius. En els casos 27.1 i 27.2, cada jugador restarà la puntuació corresponent que tingui al faristol.



Hi,
It's really strange to me. That statment says: If both players pass their turn 2 times (2+2=4 turns) or both players loose their turn 3 times (3+3=6 times) (either by playing wrong words or passing the turn, but exchange tiles is not counted here). Then the game is finished.

FISC game rules are more clear http://www.fiscrabble.cat/wp-content/upl...ment-de-joc.pdf, the rule says, page 4,:

4. Final de la partida
La partida s’acaba si:
a)...

b) ambdós jugadors perden tres torns consecutius, ja sigui per haver jugat mots incorrectes
(que s'hagin retirat del tauler) o per passar (canviar lletres no es considera pèrdua de torn).
En aquest cas, cada jugador restarà de la puntuació final el valor de les peces que li quedin
al faristol.

That is, If both players play invalid words, or losses turn 3 times (that's 3+3=6 turns) (to change tiles is not counted here).Then the game is finished.

I think this rule has not been never used. But in my club we use 3+3 rule http://www.clubscrabblemanresa.cat/materials/normes/

So, If I must to choose, I choose

Game Ended by Six Consecutive Zero Scores
The game ends after six consecutive turns scoring zero. The scores of zero may result from any combination of:
(a) passes;
(b) successful challenges.

Best regards


Scotty Offline

Administrator


Posts: 3.595

Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:01 pm
#3 RE: Catalan Rules: Treat invalid moves as passes or not? Quote · reply

Interesting! In the German thread the gurus don't want to count passes (acknowledged prior the move), positive challenges (zero move) and irregular moves (does never happen) for game end. Actually, it's an issue of computing not to reach a dead lock.


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 2

Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:18 pm
#4 RE: Catalan Rules: Treat invalid moves as passes or not? Quote · reply

Thank you, Joan. That's very interesting for us!

Zitat von FISC http://www.fiscrabble.cat/wp-content/upl...ment-de-joc.pdf page 4

4. Final de la partida
La partida s’acaba si:
a)...

b) ambdós jugadors perden tres torns consecutius, ja sigui per haver jugat mots incorrectes
(que s'hagin retirat del tauler) o per passar (canviar lletres no es considera pèrdua de torn).
En aquest cas, cada jugador restarà de la puntuació final el valor de les peces que li quedin
al faristol.



In German:

(Ich habe den Passus aus den katalanischen Spielregeln mal extra sehr wörtlich übersetzt.)


Das Spiel endet, wenn:
a) ...
b) beide Spieler [je] drei Züge hintereinander verlieren, entweder weil sie unkorrekte Wörter gelegt haben (die vom Spielbrett zurückgenommen wurden) oder weil sie passen (Buchstabentausch zählt nicht als Zugverlust). In diesem Fall zieht jeder Spieler von seinem Endpunktestand den Wert der Buchstaben ab, die er noch auf dem Bänkchen hat.


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