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Bussinchen Online




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Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:57 am
#31 Amare est velle alicui bonum Quote · reply


Statement Nr. 18 von Bussinatrix:



"Amare est velle alicui bonum"


Thomas von Aquin
(1225-1274)

Summa theologica II-II, q. 26, art. 4

"Lieben heißt: jemandem Gutes tun wollen"




Das Bild ist anklickbar und verlinkt.



http://www.ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa.FS_Q26_A4.html


I answer that, As the Philosopher says (Rhet. ii, 4), "to love is to wish good to someone." Hence the movement of love has a twofold tendency: towards the good which a man wishes to someone (to himself or to another) and towards that to which he wishes some good. Accordingly, man has love of concupiscence towards the good that he wishes to another, and love of friendship towards him to whom he wishes good.

Now the members of this division are related as primary and secondary: since that which is loved with the love of friendship is loved simply and for itself; whereas that which is loved with the love of concupiscence, is loved, not simply and for itself, but for something else. For just as that which has existence, is a being simply, while that which exists in another is a relative being; so, because good is convertible with being, the good, which itself has goodness, is good simply; but that which is another's good, is a relative good. Consequently the love with which a thing is loved, that it may have some good, is love simply; while the love, with which a thing is loved, that it may be another's good, is relative love.

Reply to Objection 1: Love is not divided into friendship and concupiscence, but into love of friendship, and love of concupiscence. For a friend is, properly speaking, one to whom we wish good: while we are said to desire, what we wish for ourselves.

Hence the Reply to the Second Objection.

Reply to Objection 3: When friendship is based on usefulness or pleasure, a man does indeed wish his friend some good: and in this respect the character of friendship is preserved. But since he refers this good further to his own pleasure or use, the result is that friendship of the useful or pleasant, in so far as it is connected with love of concupiscence, loses the character to true friendship.


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linhart Offline




Posts: 2.463

Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:03 am
#32 RE: Amare est velle alicui bonum Quote · reply

Das ist wirklich schön!

Ich glaube, ich sollte mich einmal eingehender mit Thomas von Aquin beschäftigen ...


linhart Offline




Posts: 2.463

Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:34 am
#33 RE: Amare est velle alicui bonum Quote · reply

Weißt du, auf welchen Philosophen sich Thomas hier bezieht (Rhetor. lib. ii, cap. 4, in princ.)?


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Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:32 am
#34 RE: Amare est velle alicui bonum Quote · reply

Zitat von linhart im Beitrag #33
Weißt du, auf welchen Philosophen sich Thomas hier bezieht (Rhetor. lib. ii, cap. 4, in princ.)?

Nein, eben leider nicht! Das zu eruieren habe ich nicht mehr geschafft in dieser langen Nacht zwischen den Jahren...

Aber genau diese Frage habe ich mir auch schon gestellt...


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linhart Offline




Posts: 2.463

Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:57 am
#35 RE: Amare est velle alicui bonum Quote · reply

Im Wikipedia-Artikel über die Summa theologica wird auf Aristoteles hingewiesen. Daher nehme ich an, dass es sich hier um die Rhetorik des Aristoteles handelt. Auf der folgenden Seite findet man in Kapitel 4 tatsächlich etwas zum Thema Freundschaft (auf englisch):
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/a/aristotl...ook2.html#book2


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Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:58 pm
#36 Amare est velle alicui bonum = ἔστω δὴ τὸ φιλεῖν τὸ βούλεσθαί τινι ... ἀγαθά Quote · reply


Amare est velle alicui bonum = ἔστω δὴ τὸ φιλεῖν τὸ βούλεσθαί τινι ἃ οἴεται ἀγαθά


Lieber Linhart,
ganz herzlichen Dank für deinen ungemein wertvollen Tipp!
Hier kommen nun Aristoteles' philosophische Reflexionen im altgriechischen Original:


Zitat von Aristoteles, Rhetor. lib. ii, cap. 4, § 2 ff bei Perseus
Ars Rhetorica. Aristotle. W. D. Ross. Oxford. Clarendon Press. 1959.


Aristot. Rh. 2.4.2:

[2] ἔστω δὴ τὸ φιλεῖν τὸ βούλεσθαί τινι ἃ οἴεται ἀγαθά, ἐκείνου ἕνεκα ἀλλὰ μὴ αὑτοῦ, καὶ τὸ κατὰ δύναμιν πρακτικὸν εἶναι τούτων. φίλος δέ ἐστιν ὁ φιλῶν καὶ ἀντιφιλούμενος: οἴονται δὲ φίλοι εἶναι οἱ οὕτως ἔχειν οἰόμενοι πρὸς ἀλλήλους.
[2] Let loving, then, be defined as wishing for anyone the things which we believe to be good, for his sake but not for our own, and procuring them for him as far as lies in our power. A friend is one who loves and is loved in return, and those who think their relationship is of this character consider themselves friends.


Aristot. Rh. 2.4.3:

[3] τούτων δὲ ὑποκειμένων ἀνάγκη φίλον εἶναι τὸν συνηδόμενον τοῖς ἀγαθοῖς καὶ συναλγοῦντα τοῖς λυπηροῖς μὴ διά τι ἕτερον ἀλλὰ δι᾽ ἐκεῖνον: γιγνομένων γὰρ ὧν βούλονται χαίρουσιν πάντες, τῶν ἐναντίων δὲ λυποῦνται, ὥστε τῆς βουλήσεως σημεῖον αἱ λῦπαι καὶ αἱ ἡδοναί.
[3] This being granted, it necessarily follows that he is a friend who shares our joy in good fortune and our sorrow in affliction, for our own sake and not for any other reason. For all men rejoice when what they desire comes to pass and are pained when the contrary happens, so that pain and pleasure are indications of their wish.


Aristot. Rh. 2.4.4:

[4] καὶ οἷς δὴ ταὐτὰ ἀγαθὰ καὶ κακά, καὶ οἱ τοῖς αὐτοῖς φίλοι καὶ οἱ τοῖς αὐτοῖς ἐχθροί: ταὐτὰ γὰρ τούτοις βούλεσθαι ἀνάγκη, ὥστε ἅπερ αὑτῷ καὶ ἄλλῳ βουλόμενος τούτῳ φαίνεται φίλος εἶναι.
[4] And those are friends who have the same ideas of good and bad, and love and hate the same persons, since they necessarily wish the same things; wherefore one who wishes for another what he wishes for himself seems to be the other's friend.


Aristot. Rh. 2.4.5:

[5] καὶ τοὺς πεποιηκότας εὖ φιλοῦσιν, ἢ αὐτοὺς ἢ ὧν κήδονται, ἢ εἰ μεγάλα, ἢ εἰ προθύμως, ἢ εἰ ἐν τοιούτοις καιροῖς, καὶ αὐτῶν ἕνεκα, ἢ οὓς ἂν οἴωνται βούλεσθαι ποιεῖν εὖ.
[5] We also like those who have done good either to us or to those whom we hold dear, if the services are important, or are cordially rendered, or under certain circumstances, and for our sake only; and all those whom we think desirous of doing us good.





Weiterführend erscheint mir auch der folgende Passus sehr wichtig, weshalb ich diesen ebenfalls zitiere:

Zitat von Aristoteles, ibidem
Aristot. Rh. 2.4.8 [8] ἔτι τοὺς εὐποιητικοὺς εἰς χρήματα καὶ εἰς σωτηρίαν: διὸ τοὺς ἐλευθερίους καὶ ἀνδρείους τιμῶσι καὶ τοὺς δικαίους:
[8] Further, we like those who are ready to help others in the matter of money or personal safety; wherefore men honor those who are liberal and courageous and just.




Siehe hierzu auch den Thread im Altgriechisch-Forum auf
http://altgriechisch.xobor.de/t756f123-A...ff.html#msg2355


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Bussinchen Online




Posts: 2

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:59 pm
#37 Ich wünschte mir den Thesaurus Quote · reply


Statement Nr. 19 von Bussinatrix:




Ich wünschte mir,
dass ich im Besitz des
Thesaurus Linguae Latinae
in elektronischer Form
wäre...


Zum Beispiel eine DVD-ROM vom Thesaurus, das wäre phantastisch...!!!

...oder dass ich online Zugang zum Thesaurus hätte...

...zum Beispiel als e-book...

...

http://www.thesaurus.badw.de/index.htm
http://libris.kb.se/bib/12739768?vw=full
http://www.ub.uu.se/en/Just-now/News/New...inguae-Latinae/
http://www.neorelease.com/713554-bavaria...humanities.html




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Posts: 2

Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:41 am
#38 Statement Nr. 20: Tieferes Wissen... Quote · reply


Statement Nr. 20 von Bussinatrix:


Zitat von linhart im Beitrag RE: Wie dekliniert man IDEM? - Fazit
Vielen Dank für deine wie immer äußerst gründliche Recherche!

Zitat von Bussinchen im Beitrag RE: Wie dekliniert man IDEM? - Fazit
Du und unser latin.dic, ihr seid es mir immer wert!




Darüber hinaus
interessiert es mich selbst ungemein,
Dingen,
die ich bisher nie hinterfragt,
sondern stets als selbstverständlich hingenommen hatte,
auf den Grund zu gehen
und tieferes Wissen
über so manche sprachliche Besonderheit
zu erlangen!





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Bussinchen Online




Posts: 2

Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:27 pm
#39 Statement Nr. 21: GUMMI Quote · reply


Statement Nr. 21 von Bussinatrix:


Kurios!

Das höchst modern anmutende Wort
GUMMI
gibt es schon im
Lateinischen!


Wer hätte das gedacht!






http://books.google.se/books?id=d7waAAAA...q=gummi&f=false


Zeile 18:





Zeile 21 und textkrit. Apparat:






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Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:35 pm
#40 Statement Nr. 22: Der Gute ist auch schön (Sappho) Quote · reply


Statement Nr. 22 von Bussinatrix:



Sappho

50LP/49D (bei Gottwein)


Der Gute ist auch schön




ὀ μὲν γὰρ κάλος ὄσσον ἴδην πέλεται [κάλος],


ὀ δὲ κἄγαθος αὔτικα καὶ κάλος ἔσσεται.










Wer ein Schöner ist, ist nur, so weit man ihn siehet, schön;
Wer auch gut ist, der wird unverweilt auch ein Schöner sein.


[Übersetzung: G.Thudichum (52)]




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Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:09 am
#41 Statement Nr. 23: Gutta cavat lapidem (Hommage) Quote · reply



Zitat von Bussinchen im Beitrag #16

Statement Nr. 6 von Bussinatrix:




Das L&S hat 2019 Seiten.



Steter Tropfen höhlt den Stein.








Gutta cavat lapidem /Ovid

P. OVIDI NASIONIS EPISTVLAE EX PONTO
LIBER QVARTVS


--> X. ALBINOVANO --> Vers 5









Statement Nr. 23 von Bussinatrix:

Gutta cavat lapidem.



. . . Iohannes Linhartus Salisburgensis gutta est.

Iohannes Linhartus Salisburgensis gutta est.

. .Iohannes Linhartus Salisburgensis gutta est.

. . . . . Iohannes Linhartus Salisburgensis gutta est.

Lewis & Short lapis est.

Iohannes Linhartus Salisburgensis gutta est.

. Lewis & Short lapis est.

. . Iohannes Linhartus Salisburgensis gutta est.

. . .Lewis & Short lapis est.





Iohannes Linhartus Salisburgensis gutta est.

. . . . . Lewis & Short lapis est.

. . Iohannes Linhartus Salisburgensis gutta est.

. . Lewis & Short lapis est.

. . . Iohannes Linhartus Salisburgensis gutta est.

Lewis & Short lapis est.

. Iohannes Linhartus Salisburgensis gutta est.

. . . Iohannes Linhartus Salisburgensis gutta est.

. . . . . Iohannes Linhartus Salisburgensis gutta est.


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Bussinchen Online




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Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:21 pm
#42 Statement Nr. 24: Latein-Scrabblen ist didaktisch sehr wertvoll Quote · reply


Statement Nr. 24 von Bussinatrix:




Ich halte lateinische Scrabble-Partien
mit anschließender Spielanalyse
und der Betrachtung der Wörter,
die tatsächlich gelegt wurden
und
die man theoretisch hätte legen können,
für eine EXTREM lehrreiche Angelegenheit,
insbesondere dann,
wenn man die Bedeutung dieser Wörter
zusätzlich noch
im Lewis & Short
nachschlägt.






Das ist eine völlig neue Methode,
unbekannte lateinische Vokabeln
neu zu lernen
oder
vergessene lateinische Vokabeln
zu wiederholen.





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Thu May 02, 2013 2:28 am
#43 Statement Nr. 25: Quintilian hält Scrabble für pädagogisch wertvoll Quote · reply


Statement Nr. 25 von Bussinatrix:



Quintilian schreibt im ersten Buch seiner INSTITVTIO ORATORIA:

Zitat von http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/quintilia...itutio1.shtml#1
Neque enim mihi illud saltem placet, quod fieri in plurimis video, ut litterarum nomina et contextum prius quam formas parvoli discant. XXV. Obstat hoc agnitioni earum, non intendentibus mox animum ad ipsos ductus dum antecedentem memoriam secuntur. Quae causa est praecipientibus ut, etiam cum satis adfixisse eas pueris recto illo quo primum scribi solent contextu videntur, retro agant rursus et varia permutatione turbent, donec litteras qui instituuntur facie norint, non ordine: quapropter optime sicut hominum pariter et habitus et nomina edocebuntur. XXVI. Sed quod in litteris obest in syllabis non nocebit. Non excludo autem id quod est notum irritandae ad discendum infantiae gratia, eburneas etiam litterarum formas in lusum offerre, vel si quid aliud quo magis illa aetas gaudeat inveniri potest quod tractare intueri nominare iucundum sit.




Englische Übersetzung bei LacusCurtius:

Zitat von http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...oria/1A*.html#1
At any rate I am not satisfied with the course (which I note is usually adopted) of teaching small children the names and order of the letters before their shapes. 25 Such a practice makes them slow to recognise the letters, since they do not pay attention to their actual shape, preferring to be guided by what they have already learned by rote. It is for this reason that teachers, when they think they have sufficiently familiarised their young pupils with the letters written in their usual order, reverse that order or rearrange it in every kind of combination, until they learn to know the letters from their appearance and not from the order in which they occur. It will be best therefore for children to begin by learning their appearance and names just as they do with men. 26 The method, however, to which we have objected in teaching the alphabet, is unobjectionable when applied to syllables. I quite approve on the other hand of a practice which has been devised to stimulate children to learn by giving them ivory letters to play with, as I do of anything else that may be days to delight the very young, the sight, handling and naming of which is a pleasure.




Daraus schließe ich, dass Quintilian Scrabble für ein in pädagogischer Hinsicht sehr wertvolles Spiel halten würde. Es hätte ihm wie auch den Schulkindern sicher auch Spaß gemacht zu scrabblen...



PS:
Gero und ich, wir spielten als kleine Kinder oft das Junior-Scrabble zusammen... Das hätte Meister Quintilian sehr gut gefunden, wenn er das gesehen hätte!
Allerdings waren unsere Buchstaben nicht aus Elfenbein...


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Sat May 04, 2013 11:40 pm
#44 RE: Statement Nr. 25: Quintilian hält Scrabble für pädagogisch wertvoll Quote · reply


Quintilian about Scrabble:



http://archive.org/stream/institutoorato...age/32/mode/2up




*) Lectio scrabulatior "velut ludus Scrabularum" nusquam nisi in codice Bussinatricensi reperta est.


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Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:27 pm
#45 Statement Nr. 26: Der Weg ist das Ziel Quote · reply


Statement Nr. 26 von Bussinatrix:



Der Weg ist das Ziel.

(Konfuzius)








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