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 Νέα Ελληνικά - Modern Greek - Neugriechisch
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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 17

Mon May 30, 2011 9:33 am
Modern Greek Dictionary: neo-hellenic.dic Quote · reply

Apollonius wrote in his posting #1 on SKINS!

Zitat von Apollonius
I'm also an ancient Greece fanatic, [...]

...and he said in a Skype chat we had some days ago:

Zitat von Apollonius
[5/28/2011 8:32:10 PM] Loren Hall: I know...SO MANY languages!!! Greek would be nice. :)


Then he wrote to me in a forum mail:

Zitat von Apollonius
WOW WOW WOW!! @_@

You have NO IDEA how cool it would be to me to have [...] a Greek dictionary, [...]



So let's start a discussion about an Modern Greek Dictionary for Scrabble3D!

I propose to do it in English, because I don't want to exclude our new American forum member Apollonius from this discussion. Okay?
But if there is somebody who prefers to speak German, you may do it, of course.


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linhart Offline




Posts: 2.493

Mon May 30, 2011 9:48 am
#2 RE: Modern Greek dictionary: neo-hellenic.dic Quote · reply

I assure you that I will help you in establishing a greek dictionary. But first of all, we should find some wordlist to start with.

Since Apollonius writes he is an ancient Greece fanatic I wonder why you are planning a modern Greek dictionary.
Of course, it will probably be easier to find a spell checking word list in modern Greek. Is this the reason?


linhart Offline




Posts: 2.493

Mon May 30, 2011 10:00 am
#3 RE: Modern Greek dictionary: neo-hellenic.dic Quote · reply

I just found that Quackle contains a Greek word list. However, it is in encoded form (dawg), but I could ask Christoph Haenel if he can decode it, since this is the same format as his German Quackle list.


Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 17

Mon May 30, 2011 10:21 am
#4 RE: Modern Greek dictionary: neo-hellenic.dic Quote · reply

Thank you so much, my dear Linhart! It's really great that we always can count on your help! Let me hug you!

Zitat von linhart
Since Apollonius writes he is an ancient Greece fanatic I wonder why you are planning a modern Greek dictionary.



Yes, as I understood, he is first of all an ancient Greece fanatic. In fact, it was Apollonius' idea to create an ancient Greek package for Scrabble3D. It was me ( ), however, who started two parallel threads for both ancient and modern Greek, because I think it would be stupid to create an ancient-greek.dic for some excentric Scrabble playing classical philologists only, skipping at the same time all the living Greek Scrabble players of today. We cannot only implement ancient Greek in Scrabble3D without implementing modern Greek, too. IMHO, it would be a mockery for Greek Scrabble players living in the 3rd millenium AD.


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 17

Mon May 30, 2011 10:21 am
#5 RE: Modern Greek dictionary: neo-hellenic.dic Quote · reply

Zitat von linhart
I just found that Quackle contains a Greek word list. However, it is in encoded form (dawg), but I could ask Christoph Haenel if he can decode it, since this is the same format as his German Quackle list.



Great!!!


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 17

Mon May 30, 2011 5:37 pm
#6 RE: Modern Greek dictionary: neo-hellenic.dic Quote · reply

Maybe the Greek spell checker dictionary for OpenOffice.org could be useful for us, too:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki...ek_.28Greece.29

Dear Linhart, if/when you get the Greek Quackle word list from Christoph Haenel, you could compare it with the OpenOffice spelling list and check out the differences. And then we'll see which and how many inflected forms there are.


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 17

Tue May 31, 2011 12:36 am
#7 RE: Modern Greek dictionary: neo-hellenic.dic Quote · reply

http://fmg-www.cs.ucla.edu/geoff/ispell-dictionaries.html#Greek-dicts

(Copy the whole link and paste it in the address field of your web browser.)


http://www.dmst.aueb.gr/dds/sw/greek/ispell/index.html

http://www.dmst.aueb.gr/dds/sw/greek/ispell/dictionary.html


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 17

Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:13 am
#8 RE: Modern Greek dictionary: neo-hellenic.dic Quote · reply

ACCEPTANCE OF WORDS

Sources:
Thessaloniki Scrabble Club: http://www.scrabblethes.gr/index.php?opt...id=78&Itemid=61
National Scrabble Association: http://www.greekscrabble.gr/index.php?op...d=32&Itemid=112

The word source used in Modern Greek Scrabble is actually not a single dictionary, but two different dictionaries and the special list published by the Scrabble Club of Kastoria.
Only the words found in the following dictionaries and lists are accepted (1):

1.
«Λεξικό της Κοινής Νεοελληνικής» Ίδρυμα Μ. Τριανταφυλλίδη, 1998
(Lexiko tis Koinis Neoellinikis / Dictionary of Modern Greek, M. Triantafyllidis Foundation, 1998
http://www.greek-language.gr/greekLang/m...ides/index.html

2.
«Λεξικό της Νέας Ελληνικής Γλώσσας» Γ. Μπαμπινιώτης, Έκδοση 1998, αναθεωρημένη 2005 (μόνον οι τύποι με έντονα τυπογραφικά στοιχεία)

(Lexiko tis Neas Ellinikis Glossas / Dictionary of Modern Greek Language) G. Babiniotis, 1998, revised edition 2005 (only those typed in bold).
http://www.lexicon.gr/lexica/lex_NEG.php

3.
«2γράμματες και 3γράμματες λέξεις Νέων Ελληνικών», Όμιλος Σκράμπλ Καστοριάς, 2006 (και οι παράγωγοι τύποι από την κλίση τους).
(2)
(2grammates kai 3grammates lexeis Neon Ellinikon / 2 letter and 3 letter words) Scrabble Club of Kastoria, 2006.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TQxSGyJM86s/TV...600/lexiko_.jpg
http://scrabblegreek.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_16.html
(no download available)

-----------------------

(1) Δεν είναι δεκτές οι λέξεις ή οι τύποι λέξεων που περιέχονται σε πλαίσια (επεξηγήσεις-σχόλια) και σε αγκύλες-εισαγωγικά, που αναφέρονται στην ετυμολογία των λέξεων ή σε παλαιότερη χρήση-γραφή τους.

(2) Για θέματα γραμματικής και κλίσης λέξεων της δημοτικής χρησιμοποιούνται οι πίνακες κλίσεων του [1] και σε περίπτωση τύπου λέξης που δεν δίνεται χρησιμοποιείται επικουρικά και η «Νεο-Ελληνική Γραμματική της Δημοτικής», Ίδρυμα Μ. Τριανταφυλλίδη, 2002.

(1) are not acceptable words or types of words contained in frames (explanations, comments) in brackets, quotes, referring to the etymology of words or use old-writing. (Translated by Google translation)

(2) In matters of grammar and words of the local gradient of the gradients used in [1] if not type a word that is used in the alternative and the "Neo-Greek Grammar of Elementary, Middle Triantafyllidis Foundation, 2002. (Translated by Google translation)


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 17

Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:53 am
#9 RE: Modern Greek dictionary: neo-hellenic.dic Quote · reply

On http://scrabblegreek.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_16.html we can find the Scrabble Word list Οι λέξεις 2-8 γραμμάτων (Hoi lexeis 2-8 grammaton)
Χρήστος Τζήμας-Γιάννης Παπαβλασίου, 2011, σελ. 450 (Words 2-8 letters, Chris John-Tzimas Papavlasiou, 2011, p. 450.)

The list of 140,000 words 2-8 letters long, which is necessary for anyone playing Scrabble in Greek. This unique publication includes all accepted words of the dictionary reference to the inclinations. Handy size 14 X 21 cm) (Translated by Google translation)

It would have been great, if they had published it on a CD-ROM, too.


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linhart Offline




Posts: 2.493

Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:45 am
#10 RE: Modern Greek dictionary: neo-hellenic.dic Quote · reply

I compared the example page of this book with our moderngreek.dic. First of all, the book seems to contain no inflections. On the other hand, there are two words on this page which do not appear in our list: σκραμπλ (=Scrabble) and σκριν.

140.000 words with 2-8 letters without inflections seems to be quite a lot. Actually I cannot really believe it. In German we have only 109.343 such words, but including inflections! Maybe 140.000 is the number of all words of this dictionary and their inflected forms.


Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 17

Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:02 pm
#11 RE: Modern Greek dictionary: neo-hellenic.dic Quote · reply

Zitat von linhart
1. I compared the example page of this book with our moderngreek.dic. First of all, the book seems to contain no inflections. On the other hand, there are two words on this page which do not appear in our list: σκραμπλ (=Scrabble) and σκριν.

2. 140.000 words with 2-8 letters without inflections seems to be quite a lot. Actually I cannot really believe it. In German we have only 109.343 such words, but including inflections! Maybe 140.000 is the number of all words of this dictionary and their inflected forms.


ad 1.: Yes, I also wonder why the word "Scrabble" is there, because that's a proper noun, a registered trademark, and such words are not accepted in Scrabble.

ad 2.: Linhart, do you think it would be a good idea if I contacted scrabblegreek@yahoo.gr
and asked them if I could buy Οι λέξεις 2-8 γραμμάτων and 2γράμματες και 3γράμματες λέξεις Νέων Ελληνικών?
On the other hand, we don't know anything about the quality and the reliability of these two lists.


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linhart Offline




Posts: 2.493

Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:37 pm
#12 RE: Modern Greek dictionary: neo-hellenic.dic Quote · reply

The main problem with the 2-8-list is that it does not seem to contain inflected forms. So even if we could extract an electronic word list, we must add the inflections, and this is probably a difficult task.

But I think we cannot lose anything if you just ask if we can get an electronic word list.
If there is only a book in paper-form, I would not buy it.


Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 17

Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:10 pm
#13 RE: Modern Greek dictionary: neo-hellenic.dic Quote · reply

Zitat von linhart
But I think we cannot lose anything if you just ask if we can get an electronic word list.


I have just sent en email to the

Scrabble Club of Kastoria
Vas.Konstantinou & XV Division
52100 Kastoria
email: scrabblegreek@yahoo.gr
URL: http://scrabblegreek.blogspot.com/

asking them

• whetherΟι λέξεις 2-8 γραμμάτων includes the inflected forms or not
• how much Οι λέξεις 2-8 γραμμάτων and 2γράμματες και 3γράμματες λέξεις Νέων Ελληνικών cost
• where we could buy those books
• if they have an electronic word list including the inflected forms and
• if we could get that electronic word list.


At the same time I gave them a short presentation of Scrabble3D, giving them the links to Sourceforge.net, to our forum, to the wiki and to Scotty's Twitter.


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 17

Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:32 am
#14 Οι λέξεις 2-8 γραμμάτων Quote · reply

I have got an answer from C.T., director of the scrabble club of Kastoria and author of the 2-8 letter word list for scrabble

Zitat von C.T. in an email to Bussinchen

Hi,
I received your mail.
I am C.T., director of the scrabble club of Kastoria and author of the 2-8 letter word list for scrabble.

Let me explain:

1. The book "2-8 letter words" is the only list published in Greece. It is a 100% reliable, quality edition which is used in all Scrabble tournaments.
2. It includes (140.557 words) all inflected forms (up to 8 letters) and that was exactly the difficulty of building the list (as you probably know, the forms of words are numerous in Greek).
What you see in the blog-site is not a sample page but the book cover, which is taken from the Mpampiniotis dictionary. I attach a 99 words sample.
3.It is sold, by me, only in the printed form (book) and it costs 20 Euros (postage cost not included)
4.The electronic form exists of course, but as you can see, if I provide it at no protection, perhaps it will be free on the internet in some days. If you suggest anyting, please write.
5.The other one (2-3 letter words) has some extra words but I don't think you need it as the 2-8 includes all 2-3 letter words from the main 2 dictionaries. The validity of the book "2-3" is under discussion anyway.

Best
C.T.




Tonight I have written a second email to C.T.


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 17

Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:13 pm
#15 RE: Οι λέξεις 2-8 γραμμάτων Quote · reply

In German:

Ich hatte mir am Montag, dem 4. Juli, in Eigeninitiative auf http://www.protoporia.gr/product_info.php/products_id/341583 das Buch Οι λέξεις 2-8 γραμμάτων (Die zwei- bis achtbuchstabigen Wörter) bestellt und habe es bereits heute erhalten. Die Bestellung hat mithilfe von Google Translation einwandfrei geklappt, die Lieferung erfolgte rasch, die Bezahlung ging reibungslos per Visa-Karte. Alles bestens! Ich kann den Internetbuchhandel Protoporia.gr somit wärmstens empfehlen.

Das Buch enthält alle zwei- bis achtbuchstabigen Wörter (Lemmata und Beugungsformen), die im griechischen Turnier-Scrabble zulässig sind. Es sind keine Kommentare dabei, keine Erklärungen oder Definitionen - es ist praktisch nur die Printversion der Liste.

Sehr schön!

Alpha beginnt im Buch auf Seite 7, Omega endet auf Seite 442. Jede Seite enthält 6 Spalten Wörter.
Danach sind die zwei- und dreibuchstabigen Wörter noch einmal separat in je einer Liste aufgeführt.

Οι λέξεις 2-8 γραμμάτων unterscheidet sich vom französischen ODS insofern, als sämtliche Verbformen, und nicht nur die, in die Liste selbst eingepflegt sind. Man muss also nicht woanders, z.B. in separaten Konjugationstabellen, nachschauen, um die zulässigen Verbformen zu finden. Alles steht strikt in alphabetischer Reihenfolge. Allerdings wird nicht ersichtlich, um welche Wortklasse es sich handelt, z.B. ob ein Listeneintrag ein Verb oder ein Substantiv ist, ob es sich um ein defektives, intransitives, oder sonst irgendein Wort mit besonderen grammatischen Eigenschaften (wie z.B. Steigerbarkeit und solche Sachen) handelt.


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