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Emre Offline



Posts: 17

Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:51 pm
Turkish Scrabble Quote · reply

I prepared a Turkish dictionary with 47.251 words (without meanings).
Also adjusted Scrabble3D.ini for Turkish Letters Count and Value.
Working on tr.lang.
If anybody needs, they can download it from here:
http://yadi.sk/d/qZBCShefJUv2k

Thank you for this perfect Scrabble3D project!


Emre Offline



Posts: 17

Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:47 am
#2 RE: Turkish Scrabble Quote · reply

Zitat von Scotty im Beitrag RE: Turkish Scarabble
Awesome, thanks a lot for your contribution! Just today I published the next release with several changes. So your letter set will get implemented not until the next release. But I can add it to the dictionary to make sure that the right distribution is set, regardless the dropdown menu at the config. Some questions about the header:

How should we call then standard category? Left blank it would be "unknown" which has potential to improve.
Under what license do you want to publish the dictionary? GNU General Public License, v3?
Do you have any comment to add at the header?
Should I encrypt the content?

About the localization: Apart from the fact that the legacy style with ini files still works I switched to portable objects (po) and Transifex. I tried to convert your tr.lang into this format, and added it as new localization to Transifex [1]. There might be issues with the conversion, but a lot of strings have changed recently too. So I'm sorry: Please go through your localization, again. And double check it with the "English (United Kingdom)" which is more verbose than the fix implemented strings.

Many thanks again in the name of all Turkish people.

[1] https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/scr...language/tr_TR/



Thanks for the quick reply.
I guess we can say Standart Category.
License can be GNU General Public License, v3.
No need for comments or encryption.

I should have asked you before starting the localization :(
I tried to get a membership from transifex.com. Confirmation mail didn't come yet,I'm waiting.


Scotty Offline

Administrator


Posts: 3.598

Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:42 am
#3 RE: Turkish Scrabble Quote · reply

Before publishing a dictionary I usually run consistency checks. Some alien chars are still in the list, ie. ?, !, and .

BUYUR?
AKLIMDA!
ALLAHIM!
ANAM!
... (a lot of entries have an exclamation mark)
F.K.B

The letter Û, which might be a valid character in Turkish, is not part of your set.

A,B,C,Ç,D,E,F,G,Ğ,H,I,İ,J,K,L,M,N,O,Ö,P,R,S,Ş,T,U,Û,Ü,V,Y,Z
A,B,C,Ç,D,E,F,G,Ğ,H,I,İ,J,K,L,M,N,O,Ö,P,R,S,Ş,T,U,Ü,V,Y,Z


You can do the checks yourself: hack the Scrabble3D.conf (it's a xml file) and change the debug value.

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 <General LastPreset="Test">
<Dictionary Debug="True"/>
...
 

I recommend to switch it back to False.


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Emre Offline



Posts: 17

Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:37 pm
#4 RE: Turkish Scrabble Quote · reply

1) You're right about alien chars. Sorry about that.
I'm working on retrieving a fresh list of words from tdk.gov.tr which is Official Turkish Language Foundation.
When it's done I'll send you the latest dictionary.

2) Letters  and Û and are obselete. In my childhood we were using them :)
Now, officially we have 29 letters. When I prepare the new dict. they will all be gone.

3) www.transifex.com replied my mails at the end and I have my membership. I started working on Turkish localization.
To say the truth I didn't know that there was a website like that. I liked that system :)


Emre Offline



Posts: 17

Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:07 pm
#5 RE: Turkish Scrabble Quote · reply

There is 1 small typing error in transifex.com-user interface > English
"Additional time is provideded in exchange for points"
"provideded" should be "provided"


Scotty Offline

Administrator


Posts: 3.598

Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:43 pm
#6 RE: Turkish Scrabble Quote · reply

Zitat von Emre im Beitrag #4
Letters  and Û and are obselete. In my childhood we were using them :)

A nice feature of S3D is that you could add it with zero count. Doing so makes placing those letters possible by jokers only (or as random letter). Its similar in Swedish with the word MÜSLI (en: cereal): the umlaut Ü is not a common Swedish letter.

Zitat von Emre im Beitrag #5
There is 1 small typing error in transifex.com-user interface > English
"Additional time is provideded in exchange for points"
"provideded" should be "provided"


Thanks, I fixed it in the source code. "English" (alone) is the output from the program, which I enhanced in "English (GB)". And this should be the basis for translations.

Zitat von Emre im Beitrag #4
... www.transifex.com... I liked that system :)
Nice to hear. You can download the provisional po file too, and use any kind of translation tool like poedit or the like.

PS: Probably the plural forms are set false. It's nplurals=2; plural=(n > 1); but I copied just the English nplurals=2; plural=(n != 1);. Don't worry if something looks strange. The program has all rules fix implemented.


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Emre Offline



Posts: 17

Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:04 am
#7 RE: Turkish Scrabble Quote · reply

* Zero count feature might be good for Swedish Ü letter but I don't think it's suitable for Turkish  and Û letters. Not much people know when to use them. And they are almost forgotten, especially new generation haven't even heard about them :)

* I prepared a small prg. to retreive the latest Spelling Book words from tdk.gov.tr.
Dict. is ready, with almost 60.000 words. No weird chars like ? or ! and also  + Û chars are replaced with normal A and U.

http://yadi.sk/d/D4nNER2EJYznr


Scotty Offline

Administrator


Posts: 3.598

Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:13 pm
#8 RE: Turkish Scrabble Quote · reply

Now we have these letters: -,',A,Â,B,C,Ç,D,E,F,G,Ğ,H,I,Î,İ,J,K,L,M,N,O,Ö,P,R,S,Ş,T,U,Û,Ü,V,Y,Z

Should I remove the words with a minus?

BAĞ-FİİL
-ĞÜ
E-POSTA
FİN-UGOR
GÖRSEL-İŞİTSEL
HİNT-AVRUPA
SIFAT-FİİL
URAL-ALTAY
ZARF-FİİL

What's about Ä,Û,and Î which are not in your letter set yet?

Is it legal to pull the word list from tdk.gov.tr?

Please tell me how to setup the standard rules for Turkish Scrabble. @Bussinchen prepared such an overview for other countries including all necessary information here: Comparison of International Scrabble Rules in Scrabble3D

Sorry for my apparently exaggerated accuracy. But when the file is online the whole world has access.


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Emre Offline



Posts: 17

Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:31 am
#9 RE: Turkish Scrabble Quote · reply

* Sorry about those letters. I made a mistake while retrieving the words.
> I updated the Turkish dict. You can use the same link.
> -,',Â,Î,Û are gone now. Doublechecked this time.
> BAĞ-FİİL,-ĞÜ,E-POSTA,FİN-UGOR,GÖRSEL-İŞİTSEL,HİNT-AVRUPA,SIFAT-FİİL,URAL-ALTAY,ZARF-FİİL are all deleted.
(Altough I wanted to keep E-POSTA as EPOSTA (means E-MAIL) as it is used widely, unfortunately officially it is accepted as E-POSTA)

* About Â,Î,Û :
First of all they are not accepted as INDIVIDUAL LETTERS in Turkish.
They are named as A (or I or U) with a hat :)
In some resources they still advice to use the '^' punctuation over A,İ,U for some words which passed to Turkish from foreign languages.
But to say the truth, inspite of TDK still trying to use '^' in their dictionary, it's not well accepted by the public.
I guess %99 of the people don't use them. Maybe a few literature teachers and a bunch of linguists continue using the '^' . So no need to bother about that.

* Retrieving words from TDK:
Ok, it’s a bit gray area. There is no obvious Copyright or Licence declared by TDK. Since years people retrieved those words from tdk.gov.tr and used them where they needed.
I haven’t heard a single prosecuting or even a complaint from TDK about that.
And after all, it is a foundation established by Atatürk to serve the people of Turkey to improve Turkish language. I don’t think they have the right to sell or claim copyright on Turkish dictionary. They are maintaining that with our taxes.

* I never saw your posts as “exaggerated accuracy”. That is exactly how it should be. I can see how dedicated you are to this project and taking it seriously. Thank you for that.
I know the importance of accuracy of the Dictionary and Localization. I too, would like to see it done perfectly. After all I should be able to tell the people around me that I had a contribution in this project with proud.

* About Standard Rules for Turkish Scrabble; I got to check that. I’ll inform you later.


Emre Offline



Posts: 17

Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:50 am
#10 RE: Turkish Scrabble Quote · reply

* Tried to find Standard Rules for Turkish Scrabble. First of all I realized that there is no official association of Scrabble. There are small groups or communities (especially in schools) here and there all over Turkey.
All the Scrabble rules pages I could find were translated directly from USA Scrabble rules. There was only one original rules page I could find which was from a school scrabble tournament.
http://scrabble.beykent.k12.tr/index.php?s=sayfa&id=6
Most of the rules are same as USA rules but rules about time are not determined properly. They have limited the “Per Move Time” to 90 sec. For 1. And 2. Tours and 60 sec for the Final. (Overtime is accepted as a Pass) But there is no information about these ones:
> Time Per Player
> Additional Time, Penalty Per Minute
> Additional Minutes
> Overrun of Max. Overtime = Game Is Automatically Lost


Scotty Offline

Administrator


Posts: 3.598

Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:03 pm
#11 RE: Turkish Scrabble Quote · reply

The dictionary is much better now, just a few duplicates that I removed myself.

12:26:08	A,B,C,Ç,D,E,F,G,Ğ,H,I,İ,J,K,L,M,N,O,Ö,P,R,S,Ş,T,U,Ü,V,Y,Z
12:26:08 duplicate entry: ZAHİR
12:26:08 duplicate entry: VAKIA
12:26:08 duplicate entry: MANİCİLİK
12:26:08 duplicate entry: KARSIZLIK
12:26:08 duplicate entry: KARSIZ
12:26:08 duplicate entry: KARLILIK
12:26:08 duplicate entry: KARLICA
12:26:07 duplicate entry: KAP
12:26:07 duplicate entry: KABİL
12:26:07 duplicate entry: HAL
12:26:07 duplicate entry: HAK
12:26:07 duplicate entry: ALEMCİLİK
12:26:07 loading dictionary Türkçe.dic
12:25:56 Application has been started
12:25:50 loading dictionary english.dic

I'll upload it now.

About rules: I don't think you should have only 90s per move by default. Even blitz Scrabble wouldn't be so fast. Perhaps it's a good idea to use the English rules. The preliminary code looks like this:

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( English:'Turkish';
Native: 'Türkçe';
LangFile:'';
DicFile:'turkish.dic';
FlagID:'tr';
Letters:'A,B,C,Ç,D,E,F,G,&#286;,H,I,&#304;,J,K,L,M,N,O,Ö,P,R,S,&#350;,T,U,Ü,V,Y,Z';
LetterCount:'12,2,2,2,2,8,1,1,1,1,4,7,1,7,7,4,5,3,1,1,6,3,2,5,3,2,1,2,2';
LetterValue:'1,3,4,4,3,1,7,5,8,5,2,1,10,1,1,2,1,2,7,5,1,2,4,1,2,3,7,3,4';
NumberOfJokers:2;
ReadingDirection:rdLeftToRight;
ExcludedCat:'';
RulesValid:true;
NumberOfLetters:7;
NumberOfRandoms:0;
TimeControl:2;
TimeControlEnd:false;
TimeControlBuy:true;
TimePerGame:'0:50:00'; //page 22, 5.3.5
PenaltyValue:10; //page 21, 5.3.2
PenaltyCount:10; //page 21, 5.3.3
GameLostByTime:true; //page 21, 5.3.3
WordCheckMode:2;
ChallengePenalty:5; //one of the possibilities according to WESPA v2, see page 17, 3.10.15 and page 18, 3.10.15 (d)
ChallengeTime:20; //chosen arbitrarily, not enshrined in the rules, see page 15, 3.10.3
JokerExchange:false;
ChangeIsPass:true; //page 21, 5.2
CambioSecco:false;
SubstractLetters:true; //page 21, 5.1.4
AddLetters:true; //page 21, 5.1.4
JokerPenalty:0;
NumberOfPasses:3; //page 21, 5.2
LimitExchange:7; //page 11, 3.2.1
EndBonus:0;
ScrabbleBonus:50)
 
 



And here is a link that confirms at least the letter distribution: http://www.gtoal.com/wordgames/details/turkish/. Perhaps you can use the references.


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Emre Offline



Posts: 17

Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:13 pm
#12 RE: Turkish Scrabble Quote · reply

* I had made a "Distinct Word Selection" after I retrieved the list but I didn't repeat that distinct selection procedure after replacing Â,Î,Û with A,İ,U. So probably that was the reason for duplicate entries. Thanks for correcting the list.

* Using the English rules looks fine to me. As I wrote before the example I gave you was just a school tournament rule, nothing official.

* That Letter list you have written is good.
(Letters:'A,B,C,Ç,D,E,F,G,Ğ,H,I,İ,J,K,L,M,N,O,Ö,P,R,S,Ş,T,U,Ü,V,Y,Z';
LetterCount:'12,2,2,2,2,8,1,1,1,1,4,7,1,7,7,4,5,3,1,1,6,3,2,5,3,2,1,2,2';
LetterValue:'1,3,4,4,3,1,7,5,8,5,2,1,10,1,1,2,1,2,7,5,1,2,4,1,2,3,7,3,4';)

* Unfortunately the page you have provided for references has a list of links which directs to deadends. Most of the links are from old Yahoo groups which is discontinued :( Also groups.yahoo.com/neo didn't help much, can't find any Turkish Scrabble groups there.

* Thanks for the upload of Turkish.dic. I tried and it works fine :)


Emre Offline



Posts: 17

Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:08 pm
#13 RE: Turkish Scrabble Quote · reply

* Localization progress is now %60. Hope I can finish soon.


Scotty Offline

Administrator


Posts: 3.598

Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:11 pm
#14 RE: Turkish Scrabble Quote · reply

Take your time. And please consider to double check with the "English (United Kingdom)".


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Emre Offline



Posts: 17

Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:09 am
#15 RE: Turkish Scrabble Quote · reply

What do you mean "double check with the "English (United Kingdom)"?
Isn't English (United Kingdom) is already the Resource Language in Transifex? Is there other versions of English Language?

If you mean doing "double check" in general, I'm doing that already.


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