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 Ἑλληνικὴ γλῶσσα - Ancient Greek - Altgriechisch
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linhart Offline




Posts: 2.463

Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:17 pm
#91 RE: Ancient Greek Dictionary: ancient-greek.dic Quote · reply

Hi asheto,

your dictionary seems to be already quite good!

Here are some remarks:

1. Sometimes there are several words which differ only by accents (e.g. there are four versions of ΔΕΚΑΤΩ). I think Scrabble3D will take only the first of them, so the others would be useless. Possibly you could write the different transcripted variants into one line, like this:

ΔΕΚΑΤΩ=deka_/tw, deka/tw, deka/tw|, dekatw=

I do not know if the equality sign "=" might lead to problems, since it has a special meaning for Scrabble3D (it marks the beginning of the explanation of a word). Just try, and if there are problems ask Scotty.

2. It seems to me that you do not give the English translation for inflected forms. Maybe the best would be to write first the corresponding lemma (base form) and then the English meaning of this lemma. You find these informations in the greek-analyses file.

So it might look like this:

ΕΔΟΘΗΣΑΝ=e)do/qhsan δίδωμι to give

3. The transcription is especially useful if somebody wants to look up a word using the Word Study Tool of Perseus. So that is really a good idea.


Bussinchen Online




Posts: 2

Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:27 pm
#92 RE: Ancient Greek Dictionary: ancient-greek.dic Quote · reply

I have seen that there are one letter words in the list, for example those ones and maybe only those ones:

Α=a_(
Α=a_(/
Α=a(
Α=a(_/
Α=a(/
Α=a(=
Α=a(=|
Α=a)=

All one letter words should be deleted, since they don't exist in Scrabble.


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Bussinchen Online




Posts: 2

Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:36 pm
#93 RE: Ancient Greek Dictionary: ancient-greek.dic Quote · reply

Zitat von linhart im Beitrag #91
3. The transcription is especially useful if somebody wants to look up a word using the Word Study Tool of Perseus. So that is really a good idea.

I agree! Nevertheless I would like to have the Ancient Greek spelling with diacritic signs as well, besides the the beta code transliteration, which I myself generally am not so keen on using because I don't have enough knowledge about it. But, as Linhart says, someone might copy and paste it into the Word Study Tool of Perseus, and then beta code is a great thing!

Dear asheto, is it possible to convert automatically (using a program) all beta coded words to "normal" greek words with diacritic signs and to add the latter to the hints?

It would be great if also the grammatical analysis of the inflected forms could be integrated in the hints in some way.

What do you think?

Asheto, you really do a GREAT JOB !!!

THANK YOU SO MUCH !!!


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Apollonius Offline




Posts: 144

Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:31 pm
#94 RE: Ancient Greek Dictionary: ancient-greek.dic Quote · reply

Zitat von Bussinchen im Beitrag #93


Asheto, you really do a GREAT JOB !!!

THANK YOU SO MUCH !!!




Add my thanks also!


asheto Offline



Posts: 15

Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:36 am
#95 RE: Ancient Greek Dictionary: ancient-greek.dic Quote · reply

Zitat von linhart im Beitrag #91


1. Sometimes there are several words which differ only by accents (e.g. there are four versions of ΔΕΚΑΤΩ). I think Scrabble3D will take only the first of them


That's true


Zitat von linhart im Beitrag #91

, so the others would be useless.


Zitat von Bussinchen im Beitrag #92


All one letter words should be deleted, since they don't exist in Scrabble.




Let's take for example the one letter word "Η"


What scrabble.......beta code...........original..........meaning
recognizes

Η............................ =h(.......................................fem article

Η............................ =h(/......................................

Η.............................=h(=....................................... where

Η.............................=h(=|...................................... which way

Η.............................=h)/1.......................................or

Η.............................=h)/2........................................hi

Η.............................=h)=.........................................if

Η.............................=h)=|........................................inflected form (dative)

They seem to be the same , but they are not. This is a weakness of the scrable original game, (not the software), which is tailored to the needs of the English language. By converting to uppercase and removing accents and spirits, we make our life easy as "developers" , but we "kill" the language.

Scrabble3d indeed recognizes 878.067 words instead of ~1.100.000

It would be easy for us to delete the "duplicates" but:

a) they do no harm to the functionality of the software. They are "invisible" to the simple player.

b) the complete word list could be useful one day to another application,

c) we may introduce later an extended polytonic Greek letter set, (with accents, spirits, subscript etc), for the hardcore paranoiac players :-)



Zitat von linhart im Beitrag #91

I do not know if the equality sign "=" might lead to problems



So far, it doesn't seem to cause any problem



Zitat von linhart im Beitrag #91

2. It seems to me that you do not give the English translation for inflected forms. Maybe the best would be to write first the corresponding lemma (base form) and then the English meaning of this lemma. You find these informations in the greek-analyses file.

So it might look like this:

ΕΔΟΘΗΣΑΝ=e)do/qhsan δίδωμι to give


Zitat von Bussinchen im Beitrag #93


It would be great if also the grammatical analysis of the inflected forms could be integrated in the hints in some way.

What do you think?


That's true, the English translation exists only for the lemma.

We could release a version with all the additional info of the greek-analyses.txt, but that would result in a huge "inflated" file of about 100 mb size .It could be like this (see attached sample.zip)

ΕΓΚΩΜΙΑΖΟΝΤΟΣ=ἐγκωμιάζοντος e)gkwmia/zontos {e)gkwmia/zw praise pres part act masc/neut gen sg}
ΕΓΚΩΜΙΑΖΟΥΣΑ=ἐγκωμιάζουσα e)gkwmia/zousa {e)gkwmia/zw praise pres part act fem nom/voc sg (attic epic doric ionic)}
ΕΓΚΩΜΙΑΖΟΥΣΑΙ=ἐγκωμιάζουσαι e)gkwmia/zousai {e)gkwmia/zw praise pres part act fem nom/voc pl (attic epic doric ionic)}
ΕΝΑΠΟΚΕΚΡΥΜΜΕΝΟΝ=ἐναποκεκρυμμένον e)napokekrumme/non {e)n-a)pokru/ptw hide from perf part mp masc acc sg}[e)n-a)pokru/ptw hide from perf part mp neut nom/voc/acc sg}



I think that our main goal should be the release of an Ancient Greek dictionary for the majority of players, combining the available sources we have (greek-analyses.txt , New and Old Testament text) as soon as possible.

Secondary the development of an alternative release with all the info , targeting to a more demanding audience.







Zitat von Bussinchen im Beitrag #93

is it possible to convert automatically (using a program) all beta coded words to "normal" greek words with diacritic signs and to add the latter to the hints?

It would be great if also the grammatical analysis of the inflected forms could be integrated in the hints in some way.



http://www.toufexis.info/archives/74
http://www.greektranscoder.org/
http://www.katabiblon.com/tools/perseus-hopperizer/

The following link did the dirty job of converting 200.000 words in 50 sec

http://www.jiffycomp.com/cgibin/convert.cgi


Thank you all for your comments._

Attachment:
SAMPLE.zip

Bussinchen Online




Posts: 2

Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:22 am
#96 RE: Ancient Greek Dictionary: ancient-greek.dic Quote · reply

Χαίρε, ὦ φίλε asheto.

Zitat von asheto
It would be easy for us to delete the "duplicates" but:
a) they do no harm to the functionality of the software. They are "invisible" to the simple player.
b) the complete word list could be useful one day to another application


Maybe you are right, asheto.


Zitat von asheto
It would be easy for us to delete the "duplicates" but:
c) we may introduce later an extended polytonic Greek letter set, (with accents, spirits, subscript etc), for the hardcore paranoiac players :-)


Exactly! I also have been thinking about a special Ancient Greek polytonic letter set with diacritical signs. In order to create that letter set, we'll need to make frequency analysis of the different letters in the corpus of our ancient-greek.dic.


Zitat von asheto
We could release a version with all the additional info of the greek-analyses.txt, but that would result in a huge "inflated" file of about 100 mb size. It could be like this (see attached sample.zip)

ΕΓΚΩΜΙΑΖΟΝΤΟΣ=ἐγκωμιάζοντος e)gkwmia/zontos {e)gkwmia/zw praise pres part act masc/neut gen sg}
ΕΓΚΩΜΙΑΖΟΥΣΑ=ἐγκωμιάζουσα e)gkwmia/zousa {e)gkwmia/zw praise pres part act fem nom/voc sg (attic epic doric ionic)}
ΕΓΚΩΜΙΑΖΟΥΣΑΙ=ἐγκωμιάζουσαι e)gkwmia/zousai {e)gkwmia/zw praise pres part act fem nom/voc pl (attic epic doric ionic)}
ΕΝΑΠΟΚΕΚΡΥΜΜΕΝΟΝ=ἐναποκεκρυμμένον e)napokekrumme/non {e)n-a)pokru/ptw hide from perf part mp masc acc sg}[e)n-a)pokru/ptw hide from perf part mp neut nom/voc/acc sg}



Νὴ τὸν Δία. 100 MB! This is really a huge file! But anyway: I myself would really appreciate the grammatical analysis very very much. Pedagogically it would be a great advantage for pupils and students to have these explanations. I think that the users of Scrabble3D that will play in Ancient Greek will mostly be pupils and students. And they will be pleased about such explanations. Don't you think so?

Εὐχαριστῶ, ὦ φίλε asheto, for all your efforts!


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Scotty Offline

Administrator


Posts: 3.595

Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:24 am
#97 RE: Ancient Greek Dictionary: ancient-greek.dic Quote · reply

Zitat von asheto im Beitrag #95
Let's take for example the one letter word "Η"...
Unicode does provide uppercase letters for this issue: http://www.unicodemap.org/range/39/Greek_Extended/

Zitat von asheto im Beitrag #95
Scrabble3d indeed recognizes 878.067 words instead of ~1.100.000
Because duplicates are ignored. BTW: you may add "DebugDictionary=1" to the "[General]" section of Scrabble3D.ini to get information on duplicates and used letters, both as debug messages. I always check dictionaries to verify that no tag or delimiter has been missed in words.

Zitat von linhart im Beitrag #91
I do not know if the equality sign "=" might lead to problems
Only the first equal sign is treated for separation between word and meaning. But take care with the semicolon, I'm not sure what happens there.

Zitat von asheto im Beitrag #95
...a huge "inflated" file of about 100 mb size
The reading of 100MB data takes a while and the whole stuff is being held in memory. Weak computers (netbooks e.g.) might run into trouble.

Zitat von asheto im Beitrag #95
...combining the available sources we have... (greek-analyses.txt, New and Old Testament text)
Sounds like a good application of categories


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