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 Catalan
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Scotty Offline

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Posts: 3.600

Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:26 am
Catalan flag Quote · reply

With patch 24 a unique flag for catalan will be available (as well as for Scottish):


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jmontane Offline




Posts: 63

Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:24 am
#2 RE: Catalan flag Quote · reply

Great!!!

Thank you very much, Scotty


Bussinchen Online




Posts: 9

Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:51 pm
#3 RE: Catalan flag Quote · reply

I have checked out that the LangID in the header of the language file catalan.lang has to be catalonia, not ca.
If LangID=ca, the Canadian flag will be shown in the server tooltip.

When it is LangID=catalonia, however, the flag in the tooltip is the right one:





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jmontane Offline




Posts: 63

Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:05 am
#4 RE: Catalan flag Quote · reply

Yeah! This issue is very common. Mixting country codes and languages codes causes this conflict with our Canadian code partners,

I like Catalan flag, of course, but using a flag for identify a language is a bad idea, please read this article.

If flags are used to represent languages at Scrabble3D, as they are pretty and visual resource, then a mapping countries to languages names is needed (catalonia-> català/Catalan, spain->español/Spanish, ....)


Edit: sorry talking about mapping names. I seen now that Scrabble3D prints LangID for language code. So, the directory of flags is shared with country and langauge name. IMHO it's a bad idea. Should be two different directoris. One for country flags and the other one for "language flags", so in the second one the filenames can be ajusted to languages codes. That's increment size of Scrabble3D installation but ensures the good use of language codes.

Best regards,

Joan Montané


Bussinchen Online




Posts: 9

Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:04 pm
#5 RE: Catalan flag Quote · reply

To a certain degree you are right, Joan. We have already had a (really small) discussion on Flag about the languagae flag for farsi (persian), official language in Iran, which, however, is spoken in many other regions outside of the state of Iran as well.

When we come to languages whose speakers are not identical to a state which the flags are symbolizing, the flags are "wrong" so to speak. But on the other hand, it looks so nice on the server tooltip, and to have only text instead of the small flag graphics would be much less funny...

Politically, I agree with you and with Jarkko Hietaniemi on http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/flags.html. But when it comes to my taste - and to my taste only! - I must say that I would prefer to keep all those fancy, colorful flags anyway, because they are so nice! Please let us keep them anyway!

Joan, look here! Isn't that nice?! It is one page of our 2011 Scrabble3D Advent calendar...

But: As you are living in the state of Spain, you will have the Spanish flag as your country flag, because it is generated automatically by your IP number. But when you have loaded the file catalan.lang for the interface of Scrabble3D, the Catalan flag will be shown as language flag. No "region" flags (like for example the Catalan flag, the Scottish flag, or let's say the Bavarian flag and so on) will be shown as country flag.


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jmontane Offline




Posts: 63

Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:27 pm
#6 RE: Catalan flag Quote · reply

Zitat von Bussinchen im Beitrag #5

Joan, Look here! Isn't that nice?! It is one page of our 2011 Scrabble3D Advent calendar...



Yes, it's really nice, :)

I understand that using flags for language has advantatges. They have a great visual efect. I agree to use flags at Scrabble3D , but keep in mind that Catalan or Basque flags are not big problems. Their flags are not disputed. Chinese or Farsi are really big problems, as theses flags are disputed to represent "language".

I disagree about printing "catalonian" or "catalan" as language code. If "en" and "de" and "es" is used for English, German and Spanish language codes (that's a good use of languades codes), then "ca" must be used for Catalan language code. Printing "catalonia" or "catalan" is a bad use of standards, . If there is some technical issue, it must be fixed.


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Posts: 9

Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:59 pm
#7 RE: Catalan flag Quote · reply

Zitat von jmontane
I disagree about printing "catalonian" or "catalan" as language code. If "en" and "de" and "es" is used for English, German and Spanish language codes (that's a good use of languages codes), then "ca" must be used for Catalan language code. Printing "catalonia" or "catalan" is a bad use of standards, . If there is some technical issue, it must be fixed.



Yes, I agree. But this will be Scotty's business. Just now we can only use "catalonia", because Scotty has programmed it like that. As far as I see, ca will not be possible because of Canada, which already has the ca code. But I think we could take cat for Catalan.

Maybe it would be the best solution not to show only codes like EN, DE or ES, but to show the whole word like English, Deutsch, Español, Catalan, Persian and so on + the respective flags.



PS:
Joan, if you are interested in flag discussions, please have a look on our discussion about a "flag" for Latin language as well! This discussion is in German, but maybe you can understand something anyway, when using Google translation. The Roman Empire did not have any flag like modern countries do. That's why I would like to have the Capitoline Wolf (Luperca) as symbol for the Latin language. IMHO the letters SPQR (Senatus PopulusQue Romanus) would be too small in a graphic of 16 x 11 pixels. What do you think about the wolf? You may write in English on Flagge Latein. Which one of the graphics do you prefer?


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jmontane Offline




Posts: 63

Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:21 pm
#8 RE: Catalan flag Quote · reply

Yes, that's Scotty's business, . Meantime, we can use catalonia code for testing.

The good aproach is separate "LangID code to flag filename" and "CountryID code to flag filename" functions at Scrabble3D programming.

Keeping "country flags" files and "language flags" files in different directories, for instance.


Another easy option is:

Take and user with setting LangID=xx
In "LangID code to flag filename" do:

1st.- check if xx-lang.jpg file exists.
2nd.- if xx-lang.jpg exists, use it,
3rd.- else, check if xx.jpg file exists.
4th.- if xx.jpg exists, use it.

With this pseudo-code, you can keep flags all together in the same directory, and "ca" or "eu" codes can be used as LangID for Catalan and Basque. And "ca" and "eu" codes can be used for CountryID for Canada and Europe Union. Everybody be will happy,

But it's a Scotty's choice how to fix it.


Bussinchen Online




Posts: 9

Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:51 pm
#9 RE: Catalan flag Quote · reply

Yes, exactly. So let's wait a little bit with the upload of catalan.lang on Sourceforge.net, until Scotty has fixed that little flag problem. Then we can adapt the LangID in the header of the file catalan.lang, and then we can upload it on SF.net. Wouldn't that be a good idea?

In the meantime we can give a little make-up to the beautiful interface of our beloved Scrabble3D.exe (by implementing line breaks in tooltips and &-generated hotkeys in the file) and improve some sentences/lines --> see Translators

In the end everything will be really fine! I'm sure!



Love,
Bussinchen


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Bussinchen Online




Posts: 9

Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:59 pm
#10 RE: Catalan flag Quote · reply

I'm so proud about your catalan.lang, Joan! That's great! I really love I18n and L10n of Scrabble3D!


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Scotty Offline

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Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:44 pm
#11 RE: Catalan flag Quote · reply

Interesting argumentation about languages and flags, I encountered the problem with Farsi and agree with Jarkko. Otherwise, I have no good idea how to make a huge list easy discoverable.
The flag images are part of the application, not installed into some directory. Actually, other flags as implemented cannot be added to the program (except by compiling them into the program). I don't like to create an extended structure, so all user files are placed in one directory (saved games, dictionaries, translations) in contrast to the frequently used 'po'-structure. Flags are made by famfamfam. He or she prepared a catalonian flag but the name is "catalan" since no ISO code exists. BTW, Scotland has the andrews cross as symbol which I use for language identification. And, of course, it hasn't a standardized code. It's easy to change those names but to what?
PS: I make extended use of flags in configuration dialog with the next release. The functions are implemented and can be reviewed in the next test version.


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jmontane Offline




Posts: 63

Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:24 pm
#12 RE: Catalan flag Quote · reply

Hi Scotty,

as I write, the question is to be capable to use properly langages codes (ca for Catalan) together with country codes (ca for Canada).

I suggest two create two diferent functions: "CountryID to flag resourcename" and "LanguageID to flag resourcename". Currently is the same function, right?


Rename languages codes flags wich collision with country codes flags to xx-lang.jpg. (catalonia.jpg -> ca-lang.jpg).

Take an user with "LanguageID=xx". If you create a new "LanguageID to flag resourcename" function, the psedo-code can be the following:

If flag/resorce with name "xx-lang.jpg" exists, use it.
Otherwise, use flag/resource with name "xx.jpg".

The code will be pretty similar of "CountryID to flag resorcename", so I think the effort is minimal.


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Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:47 pm
#13 RE: Catalan flag Quote · reply

Adminchen: I changed the name of this thread from catalan.lang to Catalan flag.


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Scotty Offline

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Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:19 am
#14 RE: Catalan flag Quote · reply

Zitat von jmontane im Beitrag #12
Take an user with "LanguageID=xx". If you create a new "LanguageID to flag resourcename" function, the psedo-code can be the following:
If flag/resorce with name "xx-lang.jpg" exists, use it.
Otherwise, use flag/resource with name "xx.jpg".


Sorry, I don't understand. There are five positions for flags and three kinds how to define a flag:
* Country: retrieved from IP as ISO code; shown in game server hints
* Menu language: set in lang file or, in case of a lang that has not been downloaded so far, by known default; shown in game server hints and drop down list in configuration and assistant dialog
* Dictionary, letter set, and standard rules: name is linked to a certain flag, e.g. British = gb, American = us
(Some features will be implemented in the next release.)

All flags are added to the program as resources and are identified by name, e.g. gb,us,catalan.


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jmontane Offline




Posts: 63

Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:30 am
#15 RE: Catalan flag Quote · reply

Zitat von Scotty im Beitrag #14
[quote="jmontane"|p9872498]
... three kinds how to define a flag:
* Country: retrieved from IP as ISO code; shown in game server hints
* Menu language: set in lang file or, in case of a lang that has not been downloaded so far, by known default; shown in game server hints and drop down list in configuration and assistant dialog
* Dictionary, letter set, and standard rules: name is linked to a certain flag, e.g. British = gb, American = us
(Some features will be implemented in the next release.)

All flags are added to the program as resources and are identified by name, e.g. gb,us,catalan.


Currently, you use the same function to acces flag to these three kinds (country, menu language and standard profile). So, there is a mix of codes/flag names and uses cases.

My suggestion is to change the function to acces flag in cases of menu languages and standrad profile. So, the languages codes (ca, en-US, en-GB, es, de, fr, ...) can be used properly. I.E. a country ISO code when country is needed, and a language ISO code when a language is needed.

My suggestion is:

use LanguageID=ca (for Catalan) and retrieve the ca-lang.jpg named flag
use CountryID=ca (for Canada) and retrive the ca.jpg named flag, (or ca-country.jpg named flag)

You should to:
1.- Rename "languages flags" to xx-lang.jpg (catalonia to ca-lang.jpg)
2.- Code a "langID code to resourcename" function.

Sorry for my English. I hope it is clear now.

Joan Montané


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