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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 7

Sat May 22, 2010 4:33 pm
#1 Digraphen in der Wortsuche Quote · reply

Ab jetzt könnten wir hier in diesem Thread auf Deutsch weiterdiskutieren, wie in Zukunft die Eingabe von Digraphen in der "Wortsuche" erfolgen soll. Im Moment umfasst Scottys Lösung zur Digraphenanzeige nur die Spielsteine auf dem Buchstabenbänkchen und dem Spielbrett und die Nachrichten, was einen Meilenstein in puncto Digraphendarstellung in Scrabble3D darstellt und in meinen Augen eine hervorragende Lösung darstellt. Aber heute umfasst die Digraphenlösung der Beta14-15 eben noch nicht die Funktion der Wortsuche. Im Spanischen, wo standardmäßig 1=CH, 2=LL und 3=RR gilt, müssen in der Wortsuche nach wie vor 1, 2 und 3 eingegeben werden, und auch die Ergebnisse der Wortsuche werden mit 1, 2, 3 statt mit CH, LL und RR ausgewiesen. Unser aller Wunsch ist es, dass die Digraphenanzeige auf Sicht auch in der Wortsuche funktioniert.

Alle eure Ideen, die zu einer Lösung der korrekten Digraphenanzeige ohne 1, 2, 3 im Bereich der Wortsuche beitragen könnten, sind willkommen!

Es geht ab jetzt auch nicht mehr nur um die spanischen Belange, sondern es gilt, eine allgemeine Lösung zu finden, die auch andere Digraphensprachen wie z.B. Ungarisch, Kroatisch oder Holländisch abdeckt*). Siehe hierzu die verschiedenen Buchstabensets auf: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrabble



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*) wobei mir schon klar ist, dass wir bislang leider nur für Holländisch ein Dic haben


Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 7

Sat May 22, 2010 4:40 pm
#2 RE: Das Problem der Digraphen in der Wortsuche Quote · reply

Vektor hatte am 21.05.2010 um 08:56 hierzu schon etwas im spanischen Thread geschrieben:

Zitat von Vektor
Vorschlag zur Behandlung von Digraphen bei Eingabe:
1) Check-Button, ob Digraphen "exklusiv" sind (d.h. die Buchstabenkombi nur als Digraph vorkommt) oder nicht.
2) Falls "exklusiv", wird jede als Digraph definierte Kombination (also bei Spanisch: CH, LL, RR) intern durch 1,2,3 ersetzt und nach dem entsprechenden Wort gesucht.
3) Falls "nicht exklusiv", muss ein Digraph bei Eingabe gekennzeichnet werden, z.B. durch Klammern; also Eingabe (CH)U(RR)I(LL)OS oder so ähnlich. Hier kann dann (CH) etc. durch 1,... ersetzt werden.


Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 7

Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:44 pm
#3 RE: Das Problem der Digraphen in der Wortsuche Quote · reply

Aus aktuellem Anlass:

Nicht nur die Weltsprache Spanisch, sondern auch Ungarisch und Katalanisch haben Digraphen, und Schottisch-Gälisch wird mit 100%iger Sicherheit auch Digraphen benutzen.

Ich sähe es also im Interesse einer möglichst perfekten I18n gern, dass das Problem der Digrapheneingabe in der Wortsuche in absehbarer Zeit angegangen wird.

Scotty , du schaffst das! Wir bauen auf dich!


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akerbeltzalba Offline




Posts: 142

Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:46 am
#4 RE: Das Problem der Digraphen in der Wortsuche Quote · reply

I don't want to volunteer him but if someone could explain what the problem in the code is, perhaps Kevin has a good idea? He's a deft hand at code.


Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 7

Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:04 am
#5 RE: Das Problem der Digraphen in der Wortsuche Quote · reply

Zitat von akerbeltzalba
I don't want to volunteer him but if someone could explain what the problem in the code is, perhaps Kevin has a good idea? He's a deft hand at code.


Is he also in Free Pascal?


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 7

Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:05 am
#6 RE: Das Problem der Digraphen in der Wortsuche Quote · reply

Auch unser Katalane Joan hat mir heute mündlich auf Skype gesagt, dass er es gut fände, wenn die Digraphen auch in der Wortsuche funktionieren würden.


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Scotty Offline

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Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:12 am
#7 RE: Das Problem der Digraphen in der Wortsuche Quote · reply

Zitat von akerbeltzalba
... if someone could explain what the problem in the code is...

No need to be able to code. How do you type "LL"? On spanisch keyboards there is no LL letter, they use to press L twice. In Spanish a LL with two following Ls could be interpreted by code but in most other languages a combination occurs separated too.


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 7

Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:46 am
#8 RE: Das Problem der Digraphen in der Wortsuche Quote · reply

Spanish LL is typed 2 normal L.

But it is different for Catalan L geminada with the Middle Point:
see http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punt_volat
and http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C2%B7l

So it depends on the digraph.


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jmontane Offline




Posts: 63

Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:54 pm
#9 RE: Das Problem der Digraphen in der Wortsuche Quote · reply

Hi, I'll writte in English.

I think there are 2 features about word search with digraph at Scrabble3D

1st one: Users input. How users must to type digraph?
Currently Spanish users must to type 1A1A to CHACHA word, because CH digraph is encoded 1 in dictionary. I think it's poorly solution. The best solution is: user types CHACHA and Scrabble3D pre-parse the query to 1A1A, and then executes the query.

2nd one: Scrabble3D output. How word results are output to user?
Currently Scrabble3D outputs things like 1A1A, instead of CHACHA. I think the best solution is to post-parse the words, and replace all numbers (1,2,3,...) by its digraph counterpart (CH, LL, RR, ...)

So, internally digraphs would be endoded always with a single number (1,2,3,...), but there are a "front-end" skin to the user, that makes this trick not visible. What do you thinkg?

Best regards,
Joan Montané


Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 7

Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:40 pm
#10 RE: Das Problem der Digraphen in der Wortsuche Quote · reply

Yes, Joan,
that's exactly what we mean!
We all agree!


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Scotty Offline

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Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:22 pm
#11 RE: Das Problem der Digraphen in der Wortsuche Quote · reply

Isn't the output always replaced yet?
As I wrote it's surely possible to parse and replace CH by 1. But replacement is not imperative for all languages (<RA>SCH vs <HÄ>S-CH in German).
Vektor suggested a special identification by parenthesis but in my opinion is not better to quote (CH)A(CH)A than 1A1A.


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 7

Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:47 pm
#12 RE: Das Problem der Digraphen in der Wortsuche Quote · reply

Zitat von Scotty
Isn't the output always replaced yet?



No, my dear Scotty, it is not.
You can try it out easily yourself: Please load the spanish letter set and load espanol.dic.

Then make a test both on the left and on the right side of the Word search using one of the following spanish digraph words:

CHICO = 1ICO (boy)
LLEGAR = 2EGAR (to arrive)
PERRO = PE3O (dog)

On the right side, you will see the numbers in the list of the found words.


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Scotty Offline

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Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:11 pm
#13 RE: Das Problem der Digraphen in der Wortsuche Quote · reply

Zitat von Bussinchen
...On the right side, you will see the numbers in the list of the found words.


That has to be filed as bug report. Easy to fix... I hope


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jmontane Offline




Posts: 63

Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:27 pm
#14 RE: Das Problem der Digraphen in der Wortsuche Quote · reply

Zitat
But replacement is not imperative for all languages (<RA>SCH vs <HÄ>S-CH in German).
Vektor suggested a special identification by parenthesis but in my opinion is not better to quote (CH)A(CH)A than 1A1A.



About wordsearch output: Yes, of course, some languages use digraphs and other don't use them, or can use other digraphs. So the solution is to provide digraph information used, if any, by the current dictonary to the wordsearch dialog. So, if the dicciotionary uses digraphs, make the replacement, otherwise, doen't replace anything.

About user's input: as far as I know, the digraphs are mandatory in all langagues that uses's them. Maybe there is some language where you can play CH+A+CHA, C+H+A+CH+A or C+H+A+C+H+A, but I dont' knew any such language. So, it's safe to replace CHACHA to 1A1A. If any language enable to use dipraphs and normals tiles together, then if the user wants to "split" the digraph it easy, he/she should to input (C)HACHA, what could be parsed to CHA1A

Best regards
Joan Montané


Scotty Offline

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Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:39 pm
#15 RE: Das Problem der Digraphen in der Wortsuche Quote · reply

Zitat von jmontane
...If any language enable to use digraphs and normals tiles together, then if the user wants to "split" the digraph it easy, he/she should to input (C)HACHA, what could be parsed to CHA1A

You turn it around making the difficult input more rarely. Sounds better but I'm not convinced that the problem isn't shifted only. Aren't there really no examples that contrast Spanish?


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