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 Finnish
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J24 ( Guest )
Posts:

Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:22 pm
#1 Finnish letter set Quote · reply

Hi,
Could somebody add also Finnish letter set to Scrabble3D?
I and some other players would be grateful for that.
Thank you.

PS Letters:

Finnish-language sets use these 100 tiles:
2 blank tiles (scoring 0 points)
1 point: A ×10, I ×10, N ×9, T ×9, E ×8, S ×7
2 points: K ×5, L ×5, O ×5, Ä ×5
3 points: U ×4, M ×3
4 points: H ×2, J ×2, P ×2, R ×2, V ×2, Y ×2
7 points: D ×1, Ö ×1
8 points: B ×1, F ×1, G ×1
10 points: C ×1


Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 2

Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:52 pm
#2 RE: Finnish letter set needed Quote · reply

Excellent idea indeed!

By the way:
As we don't know anything about a Finnish Scrabble Federation, let me ask you if you know if a Finnish Scrabble Federation exists?
Which rules are applied in the Finnish Scrabble game? Do you know if official Finnish Tournament Rules exist and can be found on internet?
Maybe you have the booklet which is in the box of the Finnish board game?

And then let me ask you where you have found the letter set?
Have you found it here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrabble_le...butions#Finnish ?
Have you checked if it is the same as the one used in the board game?


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 2

Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:37 pm
#3 RE: Finnish letter set Quote · reply

Here is the Finnish letter set.
You can copy it from here and paste i directly in the table of the letter set in Configuration > Settings > Letters.


Letter Number Value

A 10 1
B 1 8
C 1 10
D 1 7
E 8 1
F 1 8
G 1 8
H 2 4
I 10 1
J 2 4
K 5 2
L 5 2
M 3 3
N 9 1
O 5 2
P 2 4
Q 0 0 ?
R 2 4
S 7 1
T 9 1
U 4 3
V 2 4
W 0 0 ?
X 0 0 ?

Y 2 4
Z 0 0 ?
Ä 5 2
Ö 1 7


Joker 2 0

Total: 98 letters + 2 blank tiles = 100 tiles



I have compared the Finnish letter set posted by J24 and the one I have found in the Dutch Wikipedia article about Scrabble:
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrabble#Fins
and with the letter set on
http://www.gtoal.com/wordgames/details/finnish/ (which Scotty had found in October 2008 already --> Archiv 2008: Suomi - Finnisch (2), discussion in German).

I have not found any differences.


Unfortunately the Finnish Wikipedia article about Scrabble is very very short and does not tell us anything about the Finnish letter set.

Dear J24, do you know anything about the letters Q, W, X and Z ?
If there is a Finnish rule that means that it is possible to place words containing those letters by using a blank tile, Q, W, X and Z should be integrated into the Finnish letter set as well. Q, W, X and Z should have number zero and should give zero points, but that means that Q, W, X and Z will appear when you want to place a joker on the board and when you have to select a letter for that joker.


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J24 ( Guest )
Posts:

Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:30 pm
#4 RE: Finnish letter set Quote · reply

Letter set is right and that can be added. The wikipedia letter set is checked.

Zitat
Dear J24, do you know anything about the letters Q, W, X and Z ?
If there is a Finnish rule that means that it is possible to place words containing those letters by using a blank tile, Q, W, X and Z should be integrated into the Finnish letter set as well. Q, W, X and Z should have number zero and should give zero points, but that means that Q, W, X and Z will appear when you want to place a joker on the board and when you have to select a letter for that joker.


Letters Q, W, X and Z aren't existing in Finnish Scrabble. Those letters are not used in allowed Finnish words. Can't we always remove those letters from Finnish letter set?


J24 ( Guest )
Posts:

Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:05 pm
#5 RE: Finnish letter set needed Quote · reply

Zitat
As we don't know anything about a Finnish Scrabble Federation, let me ask you if you know if a Finnish Scrabble Federation exists?
Which rules are applied in the Finnish Scrabble game? Do you know if official Finnish Tournament Rules exist and can be found on internet?
Maybe you have the booklet which is in the box of the Finnish board game?


Well as far as I know, there isn't any Scrabble Federation in Finland.
I know nothing about tournament rules but here are some rules for normal Scrabble game:
* Number of passes: 2
* No cambio secco
* Subtract left values: true
* Add left values: true
* No joker exchange
* Treat zero move as pass: false
* Penalty for left jokers: 0
* No limits in exchanges
* 7 pieces
* no time limit
* word check mode: takeback

BTW, new word check mode, where takeback and polling are combined, would be great. Then you would not lose turn if your suggested word is not accepted by other players.


Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 2

Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:18 am
#6 RE: Finnish letter set Quote · reply

Zitat von J24
Letters Q, W, X and Z aren't existing in Finnish Scrabble. Those letters are not used in allowed Finnish words. Can't we always remove those letters from Finnish letter set?


I'm asking you about Q, W, X and Z, because in other languages there are rules indeed that mean that blank tiles may be used for words containing those letters. Which words are allowed in Finnish Scrabble? Which dictionary is used? Maybe in that dictionary there are English words (or words from other languages) to be considered valid words in Finnish Scrabble game. I know that Q, W, X and Z do not exist in originally Finnish words, but maybe they do in valid foreign words or in valid loanwords.

Are you in possess of the booklet with the Finnish rules from the board game? What is written there?


@J24:
PS: Talar du kanske svenska också?


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Scotty Offline

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Posts: 3.598

Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:57 pm
#7 RE: Finnish letter set Quote · reply

Some words from the suomi.dic:

BECQUEREL
CASHEWPÄHKINÄ
JUKEBOX
PAPARAZZI

Btw: The dictionary is quite bad. Many false formatting and, I'm afraid, a lot of non native words.

Gordon Toal denies QWXZ (http://gtoal.com/wordgames/details/finnish/) but do you really not want to place BECQUEREL?


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J24 ( Guest )
Posts:

Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:59 pm
#8 RE: Finnish letter set Quote · reply

At least I and my co-players don't want to to use QWXZ in Scrabble. You can't use blank tiles for those letters.
Yes, there are some words with those special letters, but we do not use them.
We use the dictonary of Finnish Language Office. There are some valid pure loan words but not so many.


Scotty Offline

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Posts: 3.598

Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:21 pm
#9 RE: Finnish letter set Quote · reply

Zitat von J24
We use the dictonary of Finnish Language Office.

If this dictionary contains the official word list and if it's available for public access it would be great to replace the current dictionary.


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 2

Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:28 pm
#10 RE: Finnish letter set Quote · reply

Zitat von J24
1 a): At least I and my co-players don't want to to use QWXZ in Scrabble.
1 b): You can't use blank tiles for those letters.
2: Yes, there are some words with those special letters, but we do not use them.
3: We use the dictionary of Finnish Language Office. There are some valid pure loan words but not so many.



1 a): That's not the question. It doesn't matter what some few players - for example you and your mates - like or don't like to do. My aim is always that the official rules be integrated in Scrabble3D, in order to imitate, as far as possible, the rules of the real board game or, where applicable, the official tournament rules established by National and International Scrabble Federations. Please look here:
Comparison of International Scrabble Rules in Scrabble3D
It was a huge work to read all the official rules in all those languages and to create that table (see the sources/references beneath my table).
When I had found relevant documents on internet, I always wrote down my sources, too. IMHO that's very very important, otherwise we don't make a serious job with our Scrabble3D.

1 b): Why not? Give us a source for your assertion. Show us the text of any official Scrabble document, please. What is written about the use of the jokers in the booklet which is in the box of the board game? Maybe you can scan the booklet and post it here as a pdf file. Anyway, that would be great, because I never have seen it. Don't worry - as I live in Sweden, I know several people who are talking Finnish and who could help me to read the rules.

2: see above

3: Dictionary of Finnish Language Office: It would be nice if you could give us a link! What's its name in Finnish?
When you say "we", do you mean only you and your mates ord do you mean Finnish Scrabble generally?

It would be great if you could help us, because we really want to improve Scrabble3D. But improving Scrabble3D must be a serious and reliable procedure, you know! I want to avoid, as far as possible, arbitrary decisions without substance. I really attach great importance to that.


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J24 ( Guest )
Posts:

Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:22 pm
#11 RE: Finnish letter set Quote · reply

J24 ( Guest )
Posts:

Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:23 pm
#12 RE: Finnish letter set Quote · reply

And the dictionary portal what we use, is not free one.


Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 2

Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:25 pm
#13 RE: Finnish letter set Quote · reply

Our discussion regarding our suomi.dic (which is offtopic in this thread) should be continued here:

The Finnish dictionary and our suomi.dic


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Bussinchen Offline




Posts: 2

Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:19 pm
#14 RE: Finnish letter set Quote · reply

Today Scotty has told us that he has implemented the Finnish letter set as one of the available standard letter sets.
It is available in the test version 26a that has been published today, 4th January 2012.

--> [erledigt] Finnisches Buchstabenset implementieren (in German language)

Kiitos!


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xyz Offline



Posts: 69

Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:45 pm
#15 RE: Finnish letter set Quote · reply

Interesting, that there is still one more letter, not mentioned here, in the Finnish alphabet. It's easy to forget because the letter is used in only one word in Finnish - at least in The Finnish Language Office dictionary.

It would be nice to be able to play with all of the alphabet. There's no good reason of not using them. At least, it should be an option.

Still, there are letters not in the Finnish alphabet that must be used in correct Finnish! These are š and ž.


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